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Post by parousia70 on Jul 30, 2003 10:04:32 GMT -5
I believe the Philadelphia and Laodicea church are overlapping each other - more belong to the "Laodicea" church now, than the "Philadelphia" church, but there is a remnant left of "Philadelphia" I agree with you Jan! God Bless! But where does the Bible teach this elaborate allegory???
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Post by bestscreennameever on Jul 30, 2003 11:10:04 GMT -5
The 7 churches in Revelation are said to be "epochs if time" and not to be taken literally. Each church represents God's church at a given time period. I believe Laodicea describes the church's present condition at this time. [/color][/quote] Where is it taught that the 7 churches are not literal, but representative of 7 time periods? Isn't this what dispensational premillennialism teaches? It seems that the people that get bent out of shape when others seem to take things figuratively are, in fact, guilty of the same crime. For example, how many people think the 7 churches are symbolic of time periods but believe the thousand years are literal? But wait, someone will say. The churches were literal, they did really exist, but they are also symbolic of time periods. How is that different than someone taking the thousand years figuratively? Will the events of Revelation 20 LITERALLY happen? Sure. Will the 1000 years be a literal 1000 years? Some say no, and get screamed at for not taking the bible literally. What's the difference? Same problems, over and over again, on all sides...
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Post by bestscreennameever on Jul 30, 2003 11:16:55 GMT -5
Here Christ is preparing the disciples for a long delay in the "kingdom program" as it relates to Israel, not the Church. Christ withdraws the kingdom offer to Israel but will reinstate it before His second advent. <>< Would you explain this further, please? What do you mean by "kingdom program"?
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Post by bestscreennameever on Jul 30, 2003 11:17:55 GMT -5
And why isn't my avatar pic thingy showing up? I checked the link, and it's correct. Can anyone else see it? It should be a pink rose.
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Post by AJoyfulHeart on Jul 30, 2003 14:28:27 GMT -5
yes it was a serious post although I think I did not write very clearly. I asked my brother his opinion on this and he said some of the people who are yet unbelievers but have not taken satans mark will go into the millenium and will see the difference between when God rules and when satan ruled and will either deside for or against God and their children likewise. those that decide against God are the ones who die.
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Post by Shirley on Jul 30, 2003 18:33:01 GMT -5
Hi SJudy, I believe we are after verse 13 and just before verse 14 of Revelation 6. Remember, Revelation is not in cronological order, so don't think the rest of Revelation is complete will not happen. Thanks Gene. I'm going to try and read more from there tonight. I'm back to work, so its hard to get on here now.. God Bless, Shirley
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Post by philomena on Jul 30, 2003 20:15:07 GMT -5
Hey Everyone. I don't really know what I believe has come true in Revelation as of yet, but I do believe we are nearing the time when the prophecies will be fulfilled. So Jan, what's your position on the rapture? I personally am a pretribber, but I found some amazing pics that I have been dying to share with everyone. So if you want to see them check out this site. carmenspage.homestead.com/jesuscloud.htmlGod bless. YSIC...Amber thanks for the pictures, I've seen that one of God in the clouds before, very pretty. All we have to do is look around us to see signs. And I've seen the pics of BVM in Egypt before, too.
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Post by larrygn on Aug 7, 2003 10:36:08 GMT -5
Shirley: you, and others here may be aware of my hsitorical dating procedures, to state that we are in the middle of the 1000 years of the New Jeruselem, and it is the land located across the gpkmtyolly sea, where it was responsible for all the golden crowns of the princes to be cast down into the sea. I think may people misread this also. It is through the saints and the New Jersuleem that crowns are cast down, not the crowns of the saints, the crowns of the princes of this world, one of the two groups that the church must face in final conflict. Larry
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Post by AJoyfulHeart on Aug 7, 2003 13:42:47 GMT -5
So do you see from this that once the rapture happens only wicked (unsaved) people can be dying? The bible tells us that there will be only one resurrection time of saved people and that comes at the end of the trib. It would have to or that would leave martyrs for God as lost forever. Rev. 20:4-5 tells how saved people rise at the first resurrection of the dead and that John saw among those risen saved people those from the time of the beast killed them. Rev. 20:4 souls of them that were beheaded not worshipped the beast v. 5 this is the first resurrection So here is the group described that will be in the first (next and only) resurrection remaining for saved people, and in it are trib martyrs. - over 1000 yrs later will be the time when the unsaved will rise from their graves so then you agree with my brother? I must admit I don't know what to think. Sometimes I wish I was wrong about a pre-wrath rapture and that it will be pre-trib but I am afraid I am not wrong and that the time of the trib is near and indeed at the very doorsand we will have to live through it. I am not looking forward to it.
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Post by AJoyfulHeart on Aug 7, 2003 14:18:21 GMT -5
I thought your brother believes in a mid-trib rapture? I have since I was first saved seen the only possible one will be end-trib. Have they really closely looked at v. 54 though as it tells us that something will come to pkmtyolp when that last trump -for the trumpet shall sound time takes place -death is swallowed up. All death is over? No, just death that will ever end in victory is over. Only non-victory getting people will be left to ever die from then on. I was not asking about timing of the rapture I was asking do do you think that some unbelievers will live to go into the millenium and then to decide whether to follow Jesus or not. And that these are the ones having the babies in the millenium? and that these are the ones that die if they do not believe?
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Post by larrygn on Aug 8, 2003 10:19:58 GMT -5
Whow! We are getting some good theology here, much better discussions than I can get at any church meeting. In any event, I think you need to understand the way the Bible is written. The old Testament is written to the then one true church of God ( known now as the Jewish faith ). They failed to carry out their duty given to them by Moses, so they did not obtain the kingdom they were offered ( which would have mad ethem the superpower of the day ), so they were then to have one last chance. All the prophets point to the Meshiah as the LAST CHANCE OF ISREAL. They rejected him, and are now out of the picutre, now the true church that did not abondon the Christ ( known as the composite denominations of all Christiandom ) are the heirs, and live in the New Jeruselem, from which they are to accomplish the goals given them by the Christ during his accension. Larry
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Post by trentroy on Aug 10, 2003 10:03:33 GMT -5
I was not asking about timing of the rapture I was asking do do you think that some unbelievers will live to go into the millenium and then to decide whether to follow Jesus or not. And that these are the ones having the babies in the millenium? and that these are the ones that die if they do not believe? No, I don't think any unbelievers will be alive at the time of the 1000 year reign. They will be cast into the pit, along with the beast. During the 1000 year reign, why wouldn't babies be born? The survivors of the trib will still be here on earth, still human, still capable of childbirth, at least that's how I interpret it. If our lifespans are over a hundred years during the 1000 year reign, the world would basically be uninhabited by humans if we didn't have babies for the next 900 years, so I think that pretty much tells us babies will be born. What would be the purpose of a 1000 year reign of Christ over no one? Isaiah 11 6 The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling [1] together; and a little child will lead them. 7 The cow will feed with the bear, their young will lie down together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox. 8 The infant will play near the hole of the cobra, and the young child put his hand into the viper's nest. 9 They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain, for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the LORD as the waters cover the sea. See, there are little children and animals during the 1000 year reign.
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Post by guidemeLord on Aug 10, 2003 11:50:11 GMT -5
No, I don't think any unbelievers will be alive at the time of the 1000 year reign. They will be cast into the pit, along with the beast. During the 1000 year reign, why wouldn't babies be born? The survivors of the trib will still be here on earth, still human, still capable of childbirth, at least that's how I interpret it. If our lifespans are over a hundred years during the 1000 year reign, the world would basically be uninhabited by humans if we didn't have babies for the next 900 years, so I think that pretty much tells us babies will be born. What would be the purpose of a 1000 year reign of Christ over no one? Isaiah 11 6 The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling [1] together; and a little child will lead them. 7 The cow will feed with the bear, their young will lie down together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox. 8 The infant will play near the hole of the cobra, and the young child put his hand into the viper's nest. 9 They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain, for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the LORD as the waters cover the sea. See, there are little children and animals during the 1000 year reign. Where is it said that this pkmtyolpage in Isaiah is describing the 1000 year reign? I don't see that..
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Post by larrygn on Aug 11, 2003 11:34:39 GMT -5
I think the timing and the understanding here are too literal. I believe that this also is alagorical, and we can only find that in a world where the USA forces acceptance of diverse cultures and religion by force, does the lion lay down with the lamb. All that keeps us from the chaos of the great evil one is the thin line of the army of God, the solidiers of the cross, we refer to as the armed forces of the USA. This is the New Jeruselem, who must by force make all things happen the way ancient Isreal was to use force to capture the lands given her by the eternal God, but she faltered, and was punished. Let us lern, and not follow her path.
Yours in the Ever Living Christ,
Larry
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Post by semperfidelis on Aug 13, 2003 15:23:09 GMT -5
We have three or four threads saying the same thing over and over. How about one more? Just kidding. What I would like to know is this: What part(s) of Revelation do y'all believe are fulfilled and what are left to be fulfilled (if any). If its all fulfilled, where are we now? I mean, in relation to the end of days, the new heaven and new earth, and the millenium kingdom. There are so many confusing statements being made, I can't really figure out where y'all (preterist/historist) stand. Please, simple answers. I think I am not the only one becoming more confused daily. God Bless, Shirley I am not sure about the very first chapters of Revelation but I think that the beginning of the Seal Judgements in Revelation 6 (I think) are all future events that have not happened yet.
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