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Post by Jan on Jul 27, 2003 12:32:03 GMT -5
Here Christ is preparing the disciples for a long delay in the "kingdom program" as it relates to Israel, not the Church. Christ withdraws the kingdom offer to Israel but will reinstate it before His second advent. <><
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Post by parousia70 on Jul 27, 2003 13:08:15 GMT -5
Christ withdraws the kingdom offer to Israel but will reinstate it before His second advent. <>< Where does the Bible teach this?
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Post by parousia70 on Jul 27, 2003 13:13:08 GMT -5
Son of man coming in His kingdom Jesus told a parable has to how He first had to go away and then one day come back. Luke 19:11 because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear a certain nobleman went into a far country to receive a kingdom for himself and to return the servants in the meantime are told to occupy till he comes back had time to profit from keeping money in the bank . In that parable, Who does the master return to? The servant's descendants, thousands of years removed? NO He returns to the very servants he left! Jesus returned to the very servants He left, just as He promised.
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Post by Shirley on Jul 27, 2003 13:39:56 GMT -5
In that parable, Who does the master return to? The servant's descendants, thousands of years removed? NO He returns to the very servants he left! Jesus returned to the very servants He left, just as He promised. Then that leaves us with nothing. He returned all of Revelation fulfilled, what are we doing here? We are nothing. We are not even descendants of the heirs. Its all for nothing.
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Post by guidemeLord on Jul 27, 2003 14:00:05 GMT -5
Then that leaves us with nothing. He returned all of Revelation fulfilled, what are we doing here? We are nothing. We are not even descendants of the heirs. Its all for nothing. No, quite the contrary! We are full heirs and once we know that we can start acting like it!! How many Christians do you know who are just trying to make the rapture? What about the treasures you are storing in heaven.. what about witnessing to people and producing fruit! What about just loving the Lord today!! No more worries!! Life goes on then we die.. nothing has changed except that we get to claim ALL the promises not just some!!
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Post by parousia70 on Jul 27, 2003 16:02:10 GMT -5
He never told them such a thing -he spoke as to all churches that would be here at the time of the great tribulation. He absolutely told them such. Yo appear to contend that His original audience is removed from any application of the warnings Jesus gave TO THEM SPECIFICALLY. THat violates all rules of Grammar and syntax. There is no way Jesus was NOT speaking directly to and for his original disciples, as you appear to be asserting. Actually, if we take the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION part, we must confess that Christ told His original disciples that THEY THEMSELVES woul see it come to pkmtyolp: Matt 24:15 When ye [the apostles] therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand) Jesus did not say "if you see the AoD, but indeed " when you see it". Who was He speaking to? HIS APOSTLES, privately, and He told them they would see it. There is nothing in the text that supports your removal of the apostles from the fulfillment of something Jesus told them they would witness.
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Post by Heart4Him on Jul 28, 2003 1:06:42 GMT -5
Then that leaves us with nothing. He returned all of Revelation fulfilled, what are we doing here? We are nothing. We are not even descendants of the heirs. Its all for nothing. After the gospels, the scripture is addressed to Christians on how to live until the Second Coming. If the Second coming was in 70 A.D., then it doesn't apply to us. hmmmm
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Post by Heart4Him on Jul 28, 2003 1:09:28 GMT -5
He absolutely told them such. Yo appear to contend that His original audience is removed from any application of the warnings Jesus gave TO THEM SPECIFICALLY. THat violates all rules of Grammar and syntax. There is no way Jesus was NOT speaking directly to and for his original disciples, as you appear to be asserting. Actually, if we take the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION part, we must confess that Christ told His original disciples that THEY THEMSELVES woul see it come to pkmtyolp: Matt 24:15 When ye [the apostles] therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand) Jesus did not say "if you see the AoD, but indeed " when you see it". Who was He speaking to? HIS APOSTLES, privately, and He told them they would see it. There is nothing in the text that supports your removal of the apostles from the fulfillment of something Jesus told them they would witness. So then all of scripture only applies to the exact person it is addressed to? None of it is addressed to me. Or you. Not by name. Yet, happily, the Holy Spirit led the church to understand that what is written to people, like Timothy, et all, applies to us as well.
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Post by guidemeLord on Jul 28, 2003 1:23:50 GMT -5
So then all of scripture only applies to the exact person it is addressed to? None of it is addressed to me. Or you. Not by name. Yet, happily, the Holy Spirit led the church to understand that what is written to people, like Timothy, et all, applies to us as well. Audience must be taken into consideration, yes... Sometimes the Lord was talking to the Pharisees. Does that apply to us too? When He said they knew not the Father that sent Him? Audience is relevant and must be taken into consideration.
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Post by parousia70 on Jul 28, 2003 12:18:28 GMT -5
So then all of scripture only applies to the exact person it is addressed to? Of course not, but your desire to REMOVE those who it is addressed to from ANY application is unwarranted.
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Post by genesda on Jul 29, 2003 5:27:31 GMT -5
We have three or four threads saying the same thing over and over. How about one more? Just kidding. What I would like to know is this: What part(s) of Revelation do y'all believe are fulfilled and what are left to be fulfilled (if any). If its all fulfilled, where are we now? I mean, in relation to the end of days, the new heaven and new earth, and the millenium kingdom. There are so many confusing statements being made, I can't really figure out where y'all (preterist/historist) stand. Please, simple answers. I think I am not the only one becoming more confused daily. God Bless, Shirley Hi SJudy, I believe we are after verse 13 and just before verse 14 of Revelation 6. Remember, Revelation is not in cronological order, so don't think the rest of Revelation is complete will not happen.
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Post by genesda on Jul 29, 2003 5:31:42 GMT -5
Where does the Bible teach you this? The 7 churches in Revelation are said to be "epochs if time" and not to be taken literally. Each church represents God's church at a given time period. I believe Laodicea describes the church's present condition at this time. [/color]
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Post by guidemeLord on Jul 29, 2003 12:16:29 GMT -5
Using your way to interpret the end - then Jesus came back in the days of Isaiah. Isa. 66:14 "And when ye see [this] your heart shall rejoice..." v. 15 "..the LORD will come with fire, and with His chariots...to render His anger with fury..." When ye see - so when ye -same as in the message to some of the disciples Actually if you read the whole chapter verse 10 says: Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn for her:So you see that it is saying that when "ye" see or perceive this is what the Lord will do (verse 11 That ye may suck and be satisfied with the breasts of her consolations; that ye may milk out, and be delighted with the abundance of her glory.) for Jerusalem and that they that are hearing this prophecy will take comfort in Jerusalem's coming Messiah... Because later in the Chapter (vv. 15-24), The Lord says that "they" will be consumed, etc. And also, verse 20: And they shall bring all your brethren for anoffering unto the Lord...When the Lord speaks about a future date He uses an appropriate pronoun. That is how you interpret scripture, by reading it thoroughly and using other scripture to show it's context, tone, and audience. No where in Matt. 24 is there a reference to any other generation than the one Jesus is speaking to.
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Post by guidemeLord on Jul 29, 2003 12:37:04 GMT -5
days of Haggai and Jeremiah would be others to look at Haggai 2:5 ye came out of Egypt How many people were alive in the days of Jeremiah or Haggai that actually came out of Egypt? Jer. 2:7 when ye entered, ye defiled My land These are messages to the tribes through time. Again both of these pkmtyolpages refer to the promise of Exodus 29:45,46 which states: And I will dwell among the children of Israel, and will be their God. And they shall know that I am the Lord their God, that brought them forth out of the land of Egypt, that I may dwell among them: I am the Lord their God.So actually according to God the verses you quoted are in keeping since the promise was made to the children of Israel and God said that He brought THEM out of Egypt.. God's promise specifically speaks of those that are being spoken to in Haggai and Jeremiah.. Again the Lord says what He means and means what He says. And again there is not reference to the fruit of the disciples seeing these things but the disciples themselves seeing the things to come. In John's recording of the true Lord's prayer (chapter 17 I believe) the Lord prays for those that believe on Him because of the witness of the disciples.. that would be US.. The Bible is very clear and consistent...
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Post by BlindFaith on Jul 29, 2003 12:58:34 GMT -5
I believe the Philadelphia and Laodicea church are overlapping each other - more belong to the "Laodicea" church now, than the "Philadelphia" church, but there is a remnant left of "Philadelphia" <>< I agree with you Jan! God Bless!
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