|
Post by LauraJean on Aug 11, 2004 11:10:11 GMT -5
The Devil prefers them to remain ignorant of him and his devices. After all, if there's no place called Hell then there's no need of a Saviour. That may well be so, that the devil would prefer no one know about him. But just because he wants it won't make it so. And it doesn't follow that people will "unknowingly" sell their soul to him. It doesn't even make sense. How can a person enter into a "transaction," if you will, with a seemingly non-existant entity? And if it was possible, who would keep the followers of Christ from also entering into this transaction? There is no logic to your scenario.... not to mention that it isn't Biblical. Methinks you need a bit more time to study. Blessings, LJ Not worthy, just worth it!
|
|
|
Post by PhilipDC78 on Aug 11, 2004 11:39:03 GMT -5
That may well be so, that the devil would prefer no one know about him. But just because he wants it won't make it so. And it doesn't follow that people will "unknowingly" sell their soul to him. It doesn't even make sense. How can a person enter into a "transaction," if you will, with a seemingly non-existant entity? And if it was possible, who would keep the followers of Christ from also entering into this transaction? There is no logic to your scenario.... not to mention that it isn't Biblical. Methinks you need a bit more time to study. Blessings, LJ Not worthy, just worth it! Actually, all people on earth throughout history who have not accepted the gift of Christ as savior have knowingly or unknowingly sold their soul to Satan. I do agree though that a true Christian could never unknowingly sell their soul to Satan. After all, it belongs to Christ, and He will never let it go.
|
|
|
Post by LauraJean on Aug 12, 2004 8:49:44 GMT -5
Actually, all people on earth throughout history who have not accepted the gift of Christ as savior have knowingly or unknowingly sold their soul to Satan. I do agree though that a true Christian could never unknowingly sell their soul to Satan. After all, it belongs to Christ, and He will never let it go. Maybe it's the term "sold," --which implies an act of will, and which cannot be done unwittingly-- that my mind rails against. Have people died outside the Grace of God? Of course. Have they done so because they never HEARD of God? I don't think so. Romans 1 says no: 20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.The pkmtyolpage goes on to say they exchanged truth for a lie. This is not an unconscious act. I just don't believe people go to hell by accident. Blessings, LJ
|
|
|
Post by AlphaOmega on Aug 13, 2004 7:29:40 GMT -5
Maybe it's the term "sold," --which implies an act of will, and which cannot be done unwittingly-- that my mind rails against. Have people died outside the Grace of God? Of course. Have they done so because they never HEARD of God? I don't think so. Romans 1 says no: 20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.The pkmtyolpage goes on to say they exchanged truth for a lie. This is not an unconscious act. I just don't believe people go to hell by accident. Blessings, LJ People can go to Hell through ignorance. I don't know of anyone who would consciously choose to go to Hell if they really understood the Biblical description of it. Do you? Christian.
|
|
|
Post by PhilipDC78 on Aug 13, 2004 8:41:29 GMT -5
People can go to Hell through ignorance. I don't know of anyone who would consciously choose to go to Hell if they really understood the Biblical description of it. Do you? Christian. True, although what I think she was trying to say, and it is a point that I TOTALLY agree with her is that nobody will be sent to hell without being at least given the opportunity to follow Christ. I do not know how that works. I don't know how that affects people in different parts of the world and through history who never even heard of Christ. I just firmly believe that God would not send people to hell simply because they never got the CHANCE to follow Him. I believe that he has set up a way for them to have that chance, and then it is their choice to reject or accept Him. Like I said, I don't know how that works, but that is what I believe.
|
|
|
Post by LauraJean on Aug 13, 2004 8:55:02 GMT -5
I don't know of anyone who would consciously choose to go to Hell if they really understood the Biblical description of it. Do you? As a matter of fact, there are people who participate on these very boards who know what the Bible says about Hell and have chosen the path that leads there. If you want to use the phrase "sold their soul" it would apply in these cases. Philip, you articulated my thoughts nicely! The good news is that we have Biblical support for our thinking. Blessings, LJ
|
|
|
Post by AlphaOmega on Aug 14, 2004 7:23:43 GMT -5
I think that Christ's explanation of the "Parable of the Sower" sums up rather well how people receive the Gospel:
"Listen to what the parable of the sower means: When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is the seed sown along the path. What was sown on rocky places is the man who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. But since he has no root, he lasts only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly falls away. What was sown among the thorns is the man who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke it, making it unfruitful. But what was sown on good soil is the man who hears the word and understands it. He produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown."
Christian.
|
|
|
Post by PhilipDC78 on Aug 14, 2004 8:40:04 GMT -5
I think that Christ's explanation of the "Parable of the Sower" sums up rather well how people receive the Gospel: "Listen to what the parable of the sower means: When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is the seed sown along the path. What was sown on rocky places is the man who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. But since he has no root, he lasts only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly falls away. What was sown among the thorns is the man who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke it, making it unfruitful. But what was sown on good soil is the man who hears the word and understands it. He produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown." Christian. And this parable illustrates what I was saying. Everyone at least gets a chance to accept Christ (the seed of God's word).
|
|
|
Post by AlphaOmega on Aug 16, 2004 5:41:22 GMT -5
And this parable illustrates what I was saying. Everyone at least gets a chance to accept Christ (the seed of God's word). True. But how awful it will be for those who just don't get it. Christian.
|
|
|
Post by RealistState on Aug 16, 2004 6:30:16 GMT -5
True, although what I think she was trying to say, and it is a point that I TOTALLY agree with her is that nobody will be sent to hell without being at least given the opportunity to follow Christ. I do not know how that works. I don't know how that affects people in different parts of the world and through history who never even heard of Christ. I just firmly believe that God would not send people to hell simply because they never got the CHANCE to follow Him. I believe that he has set up a way for them to have that chance, and then it is their choice to reject or accept Him. Like I said, I don't know how that works, but that is what I believe. The important thing to keep in mind is that God sent His only Son to redeem ALL, not some. All will be given an opportunity to be redeemed....even if it is only during what we perceive to be a fragmentary moment when we pkmtyolp from this life to the next. We will all have to opportunity to follow Him.
|
|
|
Post by LauraJean on Aug 18, 2004 8:40:25 GMT -5
True. But how awful it will be for those who just don't get it. Aaahhh, now we're getting somewhere. Are you saying that our salvation somehow relies on our own understanding? That in order to go to heaven we have to "do" something or "get" something? The Bible says otherwise: PR 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding.We know we are saved by grace through faith as it says in Ephesians 2:8. Where does faith come from? RO 10:17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ. Romans 10 goes on to describe how the Israelites DID "get it" and still turned away. Everything we need for salvation comes from God and He gives it to everyone. Not one part of the equation comes from us. Condemnation comes when a person says, "no, thank you" to the Gift. It does not come from inattentiveness on God's part. Hope this helps! Blessings, LJ
|
|
|
Post by AlphaOmega on Aug 18, 2004 9:08:23 GMT -5
LauraJean,
How can the unsaved person truly accept the message of salvation, unless he first understands what Jesus Christ has done for him? If he is willing to listen to the message, God will enable him to understand and accept it.
Christian.
|
|
|
Post by RealistState on Aug 19, 2004 20:24:01 GMT -5
LauraJean, How can the unsaved person truly accept the message of salvation, unless he first understands what Jesus Christ has done for him? If he is willing to listen to the message, God will enable him to understand and accept it. Christian. Of course that would be between Jesus and the unsaved/non believer. Even a drowning person can be saved just before they go under...even at the moment of death. With Jesus, ALL is possible!
|
|
|
Post by Protestant on Aug 20, 2004 3:01:07 GMT -5
Instead of hijacking this thread like you are all doing why dont you make your own thread. Stick to the subject.
|
|
|
Post by RealistState on Aug 20, 2004 5:12:48 GMT -5
Instead of hijacking this thread like you are all doing why dont you make your own thread. Stick to the subject. Hijack?? That's rather harsh! But since I just returned, I was following the current direction of the thread. I'll have to read back to see where it meander off the direction you wish to proceed. Perhaps you can add something new (other that your harshness) to put it back in the direction you wish?
|
|