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Post by Protestant on May 14, 2004 17:55:07 GMT -5
The Mark of the Beast
The Mark of the Beast is a subject in the bible that provokes a lot of interest. There has been a lot of speculation as to what the mark actually is. Some suggest that the mark is a computer chip that is to be put under the skin while others say that it is the supermarket bar code. These two suggestions are just speculation and guesswork rather than a conclusion based on an examination of the Bible. The fact is that the warning against receiving the mark is the most fearful warning in all of scripture. God would not give such a fearful warning and then leave us in the dark as to what the mark actually is. As we will see the Revelation gives clear indications as to the nature of the mark of the beast so that no one will be misled. To those people who are earnest seekers after knowledge I offer this study.
“A mark (charagma) on their right hand or on their forehead”. The Greek word charagma signifies an imprinted or engraved mark, and also a graven image (cf Acts 17:29) charagma was a technical term for the imperial stamp on commercial documents and the royal impression on Roman coins. The word was also used for branding animals. However, no evidence indicates an ancient practice of placing charagma on a person (for instance, for branding the slaves with a mark, the word stigmata was used; cf. Gal 6:17). This suggests a symbolic mark of belonging to the satanic trinity (Dragon, beast and false prophet). The seal of God on the foreheads of God’s people (Rev 7:1-4) and the mark of the worshippers of the satanic trinity denote the distinction between the two groups at the time of the end.
Revelation 13:16-17 “He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, 17and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. 18Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666.” NKJV
Revelation 13:16-17 “He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, 17so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.” NIV
There are 2 things brought to view here. (1) The mark/name of the beast (2) the number of his name 666. The mark of the beast is also called the name of the beast. This mark/name is a separate thing from the number 666. This fact is further brought to view in Rev 15.
Revelation 15:1 “Then I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvelous: seven angels having the seven last plagues, for in them the wrath of God is complete. 2And I saw something like a sea of gpkmtyoll mingled with fire, and those who have the victory over the beast, over his image and over his mark and over the number of his name, standing on the sea of gpkmtyoll, having harps of God.” NKJV
Those people who are saved from the great tribulation are said to have gotten victory over 4 things. (1) The beast, (2) his image, (3) the mark, (4) and the number of his name 666. So the number of the beasts name is 666. The question is what is the name/mark of the beast?
In Rev 14 just before the second coming of Christ God sends a warning to the earth against receiving the mark of the beast. This is the most fearful warning in the entire bible. After the message has been preached to the entire world it produces two groups of people.
Rev 14:6-13 The Proclamations of Three Angels 6 Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth--to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people-- 7saying with a loud voice, "Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water." 8And another angel followed, saying, "Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she has made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication." 9Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name." 12Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.” NKJV
These three messages go to all the world. One group of people who listen to and act on the warning that do not receive the mark of the beast are described as those who keep the commandments of God. These stand in contrast to those people who receive the mark of the beast’s name. In Rev 14:12 Jesus is referring to the Ten Commandments specifically. We know that because the ark of the covenant containing the ten commandments is seen in heaven. In Rev 15:5 those who gain victory over the beast are seen in heaven where the tabernacle of the testimony is. The testimony is the ten commandments.
Revelation 15:5 “After these things I looked, and behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened.”
The New Covenant heavenly sanctuary where Jesus is the High Priest is called the tabernacle of the testimony. The tabernacle of the Ten Commandments. Ex 31:18. “And when he had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.”. These verses prove that the Ten Commandments (the testimony) are in heaven in the temple of God where Jesus is the High Priest. Therefore the ten commandments have not been abolished but are a part of the new covenant.
In the Old Testament God instructed His people to bind his laws on their foreheads and on their hand. Note the following verses.
Exodus 13:7-10 “Unleavened bread shall be eaten seven days. And no leavened bread shall be seen among you, nor shall leaven be seen among you in all your quarters. 8And you shall tell your son in that day, saying, "This is done because of what the LORD did for me when I came up from Egypt.' 9It shall be as a sign to you on your hand and as a memorial between your eyes, that the LORD's law may be in your mouth; for with a strong hand the LORD has brought you out of Egypt. 10You shall therefore keep this ordinance in its season from year to year.”
Deut. 6:8 "And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart. 7You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up. 8You shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.
Deut 11:18 “Therefore you shall lay up these words of mine in your heart and in your soul, and bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.”
The law of God is written on the forehead and the hand. According to Revelation 13 so is the mark of the beast. When the apostle John who was a first century Jewish convert to Christianity heard that the mark was to be put on the forehead or the hand he would have understood it to be a counterfeit of the law of God. The evidence indicates that the mark of the beasts name has something to do with NOT keeping the commandments of God. It also has to do with worship, as those who receive the mark of the beasts name are worshippers of the beast. So the mark is a religious phenomenon because it has to do with religion and worship and is in contrast to the commandments of God. The mark of the beasts name is said to be put on the forehead or the right hand of the beast’s worshippers. This stands in contrast to the worshippers of God who at the same time in history are said to have the name of God the Father written on their foreheads.
Revelation 14:1 “Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father's name written on their foreheads.” NKJV
It would seem that the mark/name of the beast is a counterfeit of the seal of God.
Revelation 7:1-4 “After these things I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, on the sea, or on any tree. 2Then I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God. And he cried with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, 3saying, "Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads." 4And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed:” NKJV
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Post by Protestant on May 14, 2004 17:56:22 GMT -5
Cont
The two groups of people in the last days are shown as religious groups. One are worshippers of God who have the seal of God’s name on their foreheads and are described as “keeping the commandments of God”. The other group are worshippers of the beast who have the mark of the beast’s name on their foreheads or right hands. Given these facts it is impossible for the mark of the beast to be an electronic computer chip or a bar code. The mark is a counterfeit of the seal of God. A counterfeit is an exact replica of the thing being counterfeited. If the mark of the beast’s name is an electronic chip then the seal of God’s name must also be an electronic chip. God is not going to send angels from heaven to put electronic chips under the skin of His people. Also the same is true of the so-called 666 bar code. Not only is 666 not the name/mark anyway, God is not going to send angels from heaven to put bar codes on his people.
One way to find out what the name/mark of the beast is would be to find out what the seal/name of God is. In the bible names are always indicative of character. In the New Testament sealing always signifies the presence of the Holy Spirit in human hearts. See Eph 1:13-14; 4:30; 2 Cor 1:21-22. Therefore the sealed person is Gods’ possession and is distinguished from other people. The two last day groups are sealed / marked with a name. One group will have God’s name in their foreheads indicating that they have the character of God. This character is shown by loyalty to God that is outwardly manifested by a willingness to observe all of God’s commandments. The worshippers of the beast on the other hand have the character of the beast and is shown by rebellion against God, which is outwardly manifested by an unwillingness to observe all of God’s commandments, and by the persecution of God’s people. This persecution is manifest by not allowing God’s people to buy or sell which ultimately ends in the death penalty. The seal / mark has two aspects. An inward reality of character and an outward sign of worship. The worshippers of God must be clearly seen by the worshippers of the beast in order for economic sanctions and finally the death penalty to be placed on them.
Next we must determine what Revelation says regarding the outward aspect of the mark of the beast.
“It is in the final crisis that the mark of the beast will become a sign of allegiance for those who worship the satanic trinity, [Dragon, beast, false prophet] in contrast to those who worship God and obey him in keeping his commandments. The mark of the beast in Revelation stands in sharp contrast to the seal of God. The basic function of both the seal and mark is ownership, identity, and protection. Revelation 12-14 emphasizes that “in the final crisis the commandments of God will emerge as the standard of loyalty” and obedience. The end-time saints having the divine seal are characterized as those who “keep the commandments of God” (Rev. 12:17; 14:12). The mark of the beast thus seems to be a substitution of obedience to the beast for obedience to God. It appears that the first four commandments of the Decalogue, in particular (“You shall have no other gods before Me”; “You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth,” in order to worship them; “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain”; and remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy”), will become the test of loyalty to God in the final crisis. These four commandments concern one’s relationship with God and worship. According to Revelation 12-14, the issue in the final crisis centres on the relationship with God and proper worship. The two groups at the time of the end are identified as those who worship God verses those who worship the dragon and the beast (Rev 14:7; cf.13:8, 12-15). This explains why the sea beast’s end time activities are described as well-planned attacks on these four commandments. The beast’s demand for worship, something that is reserved for God alone (13:4,8), is a direct attack on the first commandment: “You shall have no other God’s before me.” The raising up of an image to be worshipped (13:14-15), is a direct violation of the second commandment, and the blasphemy of God attacks the third commandment. (13:5-6). The demand for receiving the mark of the beast indicates a direct attack on the fourth, the Sabbath commandment.”
At this point caution is necessary with regard to any attempt to limit the receiving of the seal of God on the foreheads in Revelation 7 to the observance of the Sabbath only. Observance of the Sabbath is nowhere explicitly stated as being the seal of God. Sealing in the New Testament signifies unequivocally the presence of the Holy Spirit in human hearts (2 Cor. 1:21-22; Eph. 1:13-14; 4:30); the sealed person belongs to God as his own possession and is distinguished from other people (cf. 2 Tim.2:19). This in no way undermines the validity of the Sabbath as the seal of the commandments of God. Meredith Kline demonstrates that the Decalogue in Exodus 20 follows the format of ancient covenant documents which were stamped with a seal of ownership and authority in the centre. In such a way, the fourth commandment functions as the seal stamped at the centre of the Decalogue. The Sabbath was thus the seal of the ratification of the Sinaitic covenant between God and Israel. On the other hand, the Hebrew Scriptures define unequivocally the seventh-day Sabbath as the distinctive sign that distinguished the people of Israel from other peoples. The Sabbath was an external sign of belonging to the true God and the special relationship between God and his covenant people (Exod. 31:12-17, Ezek. 20:12,20). The two versions of the Decalogue given in Exodus and Deuteronomy show that the purpose of the Sabbath was to be a constant reminder to Israel of God as their Creator (Exod 20:11) and their Saviour (Deut 5:15). It appears that this aspect of the Sabbath is emphasized in Revelation 12-14. Although the issue in the final crisis is not just confined to the Sabbath, the Sabbath will evidently come to be “the litmus test” of loyalty and obedience in the final crisis. When in Revelation 14:6-12 John describes God’s final appeal to the inhabitants of the earth, he does so in terms of calling them to worship the true God, the Creator, in the context of the fourth commandment (Rev. 14:7; cf. Exod 20:11; the editors of the fourth edition of the USB Greek New Testament admit in the margins that the statement from Rev. 14:7b is an illusion to Exod 20:11). This appeal to worship the Creator God is followed by the proclamation of the two other angels who announce the fall of Babylon and warn against worshipping the beast and receiving the mark on the right hand or forehead (Rev. 14:6-11). The urging of people to worship the true God in relation to the Sabbath commandment and warning them not to worship the beast and receive his mark strongly suggests that the mark of the beast functions as a counterfeit to the Sabbath commandment. That the receiving of the mark has something to do with the commandments of God is further confirmed with the concluding text; the worshippers of God are characterized as the ones “who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus” (Rev 14:12). The text seems to indicate that as the Sabbath will be the distinctive sign of obedience to God in keeping his commandments in the final crisis, so the mark of the beast, the counterfeit Sabbath (in contrast to the seventh-day Sabbath) will become the sign of obedience to the beast. The receiving of the mark of the beast will thus stand in direct opposition to obedience to God’s commandments. One can certainly agree with William G. Johnson that “while the non observance of the Sabbath- or Sunday- observance is not the ‘mark’ per se just now, both are integral to its end-time enforcement. The Sabbath, anciently the ‘sign’ of the people of God (Exod 31:13; Ezek 20:20), will again come to the fore to show the world those who put God first.” “Revelation of Jesus Christ” Ranko Stefanovic 2002 Andrews University Press Berrien Springs Michigan.
The seal for Paul was the Holy Spirit in the heart. Also the spirit writes the law on the heart according to the new covenant. So a sealed person is a commandment keeper.
The mark and seal have 2 aspects. An internal one involving character and an external one involving worship. You claim that the mark is only the absence of the Holy Spirit. While those who have the mark clearly do not have the Holy Spirit there is more to it. The beast causes all to receive the mark in their right hand or forehead and as many as would not worship the image to the beast to be killed. Satan does not have the power to force people to reject the spirit of God yet he does force the mark on people.
The mark has to do with worship and it will be recognized easily enough for those who do not have it to be clearly recognized by those who do have it.
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Post by Protestant on May 14, 2004 17:56:49 GMT -5
Conclusion
The seal involves the Holy Spirit, worship of God and the Ten Commandments.
The mark involves the absence of the Holy Spirit, false worship and a rejection of the Ten Commandments
The mark of the beast is an international Sunday law in the last days. It is the observance of the false Sabbath Sunday just prior to the return of Christ, by people who have the character of the beast, manifested by an unwillingness to observe all the Ten Commandments and by the persecution of those who do observe them.
Reasons why the mark is not a literal mark.
1) The prophecy is symbolic. It uses pictures to tell a story. If the mark is literal then the beast has to be literal. That would mean that the beast is a real seven-headed ten-horned monster that arises out of the sea. Literalism is absurd in this case.
2). A branded mark applied on the skin is figurative language not literal. The fact that the mark is also called the name of the beast and is a counterfeit of the seal of God shows that it is not a literal branding on the skin. A counterfeit by definition is an exact replica of an original. If the mark is a literal brand then that would mean the seal of God is a literal brand. God is not going to put a literal brand, tattoo or a computer chip on the foreheads of His people. Therefore the mark cannot be a literal mark but is figurative like the beast.
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Post by RealistState on May 14, 2004 17:58:12 GMT -5
Welcome back, Protestant! It's been a long time. Hope all has been well with you!
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Post by StillWaters on May 16, 2004 14:19:38 GMT -5
Hey Protestant, This is very interesting and has defiantly made me think. I can sort of understand where you are coming from but I do have some questions. First, I ask the obvious question that I am sure you have been asked many times, if the mark is not literal for all to see, then how will it prevent people from buying or selling?
I understand the literal mark would be something that can be seen by all, a defining point. Something, that you willingly accept, showing all that they are a follower of the antichrist. If it is not literal, what is the point of which a person knows that they have the mark? Would they have to both worship the beast and his image and break the Ten Commandments to receive the mark or one or the other?
Rev 14:6-13 9Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
To me the “and” in this verse sounds like "If anyone worships the beast and his image” and “receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand” are two complete separate actions. Are you saying that by worshiping the beast and his image and/or breaking the Ten Commandments automatically gives you the mark?
Quote: “These three messages go to all the world. One group of people who listen to and act on the warning that do not receive the mark of the beast are described as those who keep the commandments of God.”
I have always understood that receiving/taking the mark is the point of no return. If breaking the Ten Commandments automatically means getting the mark, then where does repentance come in?
I hope my questions are not too confusing and at least makes some sense to those reading it and please understand that I am in no way debating or challenging what you have written, just trying to understand and learn.
Quote: “The mark of the beast is an international Sunday law in the last days. It is the observance of the false Sabbath Sunday just prior to the return of Christ, by people who have the character of the beast, manifested by an unwillingness to observe all the Ten Commandments and by the persecution of those who do observe them.”
Could you please elaborate on this a little more?
donna
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Post by PhilipDC78 on May 16, 2004 15:56:02 GMT -5
Protestant,
So are you saying that the mark of the beast will be anyone who worship's Jesus on Sunday?
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Post by StillWaters on May 16, 2004 20:39:12 GMT -5
Protestant, So are you saying that the mark of the beast will be anyone who worship's Jesus on Sunday? Thats why I asked him to elaborate on that statement a little more, because that is exactly what I was understanding him to say. I really hope that is not the case. donna
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Post by Archangelwolf on May 16, 2004 23:58:11 GMT -5
Long time no see, Protestant.
The problem with this "idea" is the lack of grace. Our sins were already forgiven 2000 years ago. It is by grace that we are saved, regardless of what day we worship our Lord. In fact, I will go on to say that everyday should belong to our Lord, not just one per week.
I compare our Lord's grace to the birthing of babies. Who has babies? Is it the ones who deserve them? No. We have 16 year olds having babies and dumping them in trash cans, while we have long-time married couples trying to have children through every method of modern science possibe. The same is true for God's grace. Jesus died on a cross for the sins of everyone who has ever lived, or will live. The dilemma is what we do with that grace. Many will toss it aside, saying that it is not what they want; while many will find it, and hold on to it dearly.
Our sins are forgiven. There is nothing that can change that. What many people fail to see is that it is a gift. It has been left at our feet. However, we still must choose whether to accept that gift, or toss it aside.
Arch.
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Post by Protestant on May 17, 2004 2:52:54 GMT -5
StillWaters : Hey Protestant,
All of God's people will stand out and be well known. They will be teaching and obeying the warnings given in the 3 angels messages. They will be observing the 7th day sabbath while the rest will be sunday keepers.
worshiping the beast is breaking the first commandment.
yes
At this time after all have made their decision the oppurtunity to be saved is finished.
Just like when the door of Noahs ark was closed. All had made their decision and the door was shut. Those who were out couldnt get in and those in couldnt get out. The oppurtunity to be saved was finished. the rain didnt start until 7 days later.
So it will be in the last days. Those who accept the mark will eventually pkmtyolp the point of no return. The door of salvation will be closed.
A one world church will be set up with the Pope as the head. sunday observance will be made law. According to Rev 13 many miracles will be done by demons to deceive us and make us accept the state church. the sunday law is the mark of the beast. A counterfeit sabbath to replace God's 7th day sabbath. It will be a sign of allegience. Those who keep God's day will be loyal to God and those who accept the false sabbath sunday will be showing allegience to the beast and acknowledgeing its authority to change God's law thereby putting the beast above God.
Posted by: archangeldream Posted on: Today at 00:58:11
i totally disagree with what you have said. If you read the 4th commandment you will see that God has only one day the 7th and has given the other 6 to man to do as he pleases.
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Post by keikikoka on May 17, 2004 5:57:19 GMT -5
The 4th commandment doesn't tell which day to go to church and fellowship with other believers. It tells which day not to work.
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Post by Protestant on May 17, 2004 6:39:11 GMT -5
keikikoka
Leviticus 23:1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 "Speak to the Israelites and say to them: 'These are my appointed feasts, the appointed feasts of the LORD , which you are to proclaim as sacred assemblies.
The Sabbath 3 " 'There are six days when you may work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, a day of sacred assembly. You are not to do any work; wherever you live, it is a Sabbath to the LORD .
[/quote]
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Post by keikikoka on May 17, 2004 16:51:12 GMT -5
However, no evidence indicates an ancient practice of placing charagma on a person (for instance, for branding the slaves with a mark, the word stigmata was used; cf. Gal 6:17). This suggests a symbolic mark of belonging to the satanic trinity (Dragon, beast and false prophet). The seal of God on the foreheads of God’s people (Rev 7:1-4) and the mark of the worshippers of the satanic trinity denote the distinction between the two groups at the time of the end.
Your first presumption is seen in the first paragraph. You assume that the mark is symbolic when no evidence is given either way. The word charagma, as you said, refers to an engraving. Because of this, it is best to think of the mark as a literal mark untill other evidence is given.
You also make the presumption that the mark of the beast and the seal of God are of a similar function, just for “different sides of the team. This isn’t biblical. The only thing we are told about the function of the mark of the beast is that it is used in buying and selling. The seal of God is to seal our inheritance with God.
there are 2 things brought to view here. (1)The mark/name of the beast (2) the number of his name 666. The mark of the beast is also called the name of the beast. This mark/name is a separate thing from the number 666. This fact is further brought to view in Rev 15.
If you actually look at the grammer used in Revelation 13:16-17, you will see that it says “the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.” It says the either the name or the number are both the mark, otherwise there would be a comma after the word beast. You will find that all translations have this, save the KJV and the NKJV. The NASB and the ESV both have the name and number as the same thing.
“...and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name.” NASB
“…so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name.” ESV
Also, in most tranlsations of Revelation 15:1, you will find that the words “over his mark” are not there.
Those people who are saved from the great tribulation are said to have gotten victory over 4 things. (1) The beast, (2) his image, (3) the mark, (4) and the number of his name 666. So the number of the beasts name is 666. The question is what is the name/mark of the beast?
The mark of the beast is the mark that those who follow the beast need in order to buy or sell. The number is the same as the name.
In Rev 14:12 Jesus is referring to the Ten Commandments specifically.
This is your assumption. This is not indicated in scripture. Jesus gave us a new commandment.
We know that because the ark of the covenant containing the ten commandments is seen in heaven. In Rev 15:5 those who gain victory over the beast are seen in heaven where the tabernacle of the testimony is. The testimony is the ten commandments.
This again is your assumption. The bible never states that this testimony is the 10 commandments.
The New Covenant heavenly sanctuary where Jesus is the High Priest is called the tabernacle of the testimony. The tabernacle of the Ten Commandments. Ex 31:18. “And when he had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.”. These verses prove that the Ten Commandments (the testimony) are in heaven in the temple of God where Jesus is the High Priest. Therefore the ten commandments have not been abolished but are a part of the new covenant.
These verses prove that there was an testimony in the old testament. What they do not prove is that they are the same testimony of the temple in heaven. The new covenant has nothing to do with keeping the 10 commandments. In hebrews ch 8 God says that the old covenant, including the 10 commandments, has been made obsolete. This message is repeated in Ephisians 2:15.
You presume to know what John understood the mark to be. It is only your idea that the mark would be a counterfiet law of God.
The evidence indicates that those who have the mark are not keeping commandments. The evidence doesn’t indicate that it is the mark.
It would seem that the mark/name of the beast is a counterfeit of the seal of God.
More assumptions.
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Post by keikikoka on May 17, 2004 16:52:40 GMT -5
The two groups of people in the last days are shown as religious groups. One are worshippers of God who have the seal of God’s name on their foreheads and are described as “keeping the commandments of God”. The other group are worshippers of the beast who have the mark of the beast’s name on their foreheads or right hands. Given these facts it is impossible for the mark of the beast to be an electronic computer chip or a bar code. The mark is a counterfeit of the seal of God. A counterfeit is an exact replica of the thing being counterfeited. If the mark of the beast’s name is an electronic chip then the seal of God’s name must also be an electronic chip. God is not going to send angels from heaven to put electronic chips under the skin of His people. Also the same is true of the so-called 666 bar code. Not only is 666 not the name/mark anyway, God is not going to send angels from heaven to put bar codes on his people.
The bible never says that the mark and seal are counterfeits. This being said, there is no reason why the mark couldn’t be an electronic chip. And as previously shown, the number of the beast is part of the mark of the beast.
One way to find out what the name/mark of the beast is would be to find out what the seal/name of God is. In the bible names are always indicative of character. In the New Testament sealing always signifies the presence of the Holy Spirit in human hearts. See Eph 1:13-14; 4:30; 2 Cor 1:21-22. Therefore the sealed person is Gods’ possession and is distinguished from other people. The two last day groups are sealed / marked with a name. One group will have God’s name in their foreheads indicating that they have the character of God. This character is shown by loyalty to God that is outwardly manifested by a willingness to observe all of God’s commandments. The worshippers of the beast on the other hand have the character of the beast and is shown by rebellion against God, which is outwardly manifested by an unwillingness to observe all of God’s commandments, and by the persecution of God’s people. This persecution is manifest by not allowing God’s people to buy or sell which ultimately ends in the death penalty. The seal / mark has two aspects. An inward reality of character and an outward sign of worship. The worshippers of God must be clearly seen by the worshippers of the beast in order for economic sanctions and finally the death penalty to be placed on them.
Since there is no reason to assume the mark is a counterfeit seal, there is no reason to compare them for function.
Revelation 12-14 emphasizes that “in the final crisis the commandments of God will emerge as the standard of loyalty” and obedience. The end-time saints having the divine seal are characterized as those who “keep the commandments of God” (Rev. 12:17; 14:12).
Revelation never says that the commandments emerge as a standard of Loyalty. This is only this authors spin on things.
It appears that the first four commandments of the Decalogue, in particular (“You shall have no other gods before Me”; “You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth,” in order to worship them; “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain”; and remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy”), will become the test of loyalty to God in the final crisis. These four commandments concern one’s relationship with God and worship. According to Revelation 12-14, the issue in the final crisis centres on the relationship with God and proper worship. The two groups at the time of the end are identified as those who worship God verses those who worship the dragon and the beast (Rev 14:7; cf.13:8, 12-15).
The test of loyalty to God is not taking the mark. This is the only thing mentioned. It just happens that those who take the mark worhsip the beast and those who don’t worship God. It doesn’t make sense to assume that the pattern of worship of the 2 groups is the same thing as the mark in the 2 groups.
This explains why the sea beast’s end time activities are described as well-planned attacks on these four commandments. The beast’s demand for worship, something that is reserved for God alone (13:4,8), is a direct attack on the first commandment: “You shall have no other God’s before me.” The raising up of an image to be worshipped (13:14-15), is a direct violation of the second commandment, and the blasphemy of God attacks the third commandment. (13:5-6). The demand for receiving the mark of the beast indicates a direct attack on the fourth, the Sabbath commandment.”
The beast may do what appears to be opposites of the 10 commandments, but this in no way means this is an attack on the 10 commandments.
At this point caution is necessary with regard to any attempt to limit the receiving of the seal of God on the foreheads in Revelation 7 to the observance of the Sabbath only. Observance of the Sabbath is nowhere explicitly stated as being the seal of God. Sealing in the New Testament signifies unequivocally the presence of the Holy Spirit in human hearts (2 Cor. 1:21-22; Eph. 1:13-14; 4:30); the sealed person belongs to God as his own possession and is distinguished from other people (cf. 2 Tim.2:19). This in no way undermines the validity of the Sabbath as the seal of the commandments of God. Meredith Kline demonstrates that the Decalogue in Exodus 20 follows the format of ancient covenant documents which were stamped with a seal of ownership and authority in the centre. In such a way, the fourth commandment functions as the seal stamped at the centre of the Decalogue. The Sabbath was thus the seal of the ratification of the Sinaitic covenant between God and Israel.
The fourth commandement, the sabbath command, isn’t in the center of the 10 commandments. The point is moot anyways. We are not isreal and the commandments along with law are gone.
]On the other hand, the Hebrew Scriptures define unequivocally the seventh-day Sabbath as the distinctive sign that distinguished the people of Israel from other peoples. The Sabbath was an external sign of belonging to the true God and the special relationship between God and his covenant people (Exod. 31:12-17, Ezek. 20:12,20). The two versions of the Decalogue given in Exodus and Deuteronomy show that the purpose of the Sabbath was to be a constant reminder to Israel of God as their Creator (Exod 20:11) and their Saviour (Deut 5:15).
We are not isreal. There is no Jew or gentile anymore and the law with the commandements have been abolished. (ephisians 2:15, gal 3:28)
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Post by keikikoka on May 17, 2004 16:57:20 GMT -5
It appears that this aspect of the Sabbath is emphasized in Revelation 12-14. Although the issue in the final crisis is not just confined to the Sabbath, the Sabbath will evidently come to be “the litmus test” of loyalty and obedience in the final crisis. When in Revelation 14:6-12 John describes God’s final appeal to the inhabitants of the earth, he does so in terms of calling them to worship the true God, the Creator, in the context of the fourth commandment (Rev. 14:7; cf. Exod 20:11; the editors of the fourth edition of the USB Greek New Testament admit in the margins that the statement from Rev. 14:7b is an illusion to Exod 20:11).
Revelation 14:6-12 doesn’t show what this author says it does. It shows the angels warn of Gods wrath and a call to worship. It doesn’t say in what context to worship.
This appeal to worship the Creator God is followed by the proclamation of the two other angels who announce the fall of Babylon and warn against worshipping the beast and receiving the mark on the right hand or forehead (Rev. 14:6-11). The urging of people to worship the true God in relation to the Sabbath commandment and warning them not to worship the beast and receive his mark strongly suggests that the mark of the beast functions as a counterfeit to the Sabbath commandment. That the receiving of the mark has something to do with the commandments of God is further confirmed with the concluding text; the worshippers of God are characterized as the ones “who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus” (Rev 14:12).
I find it amusing how this supposedly all points to worshiping on the sabbath when no mention of the sabbath or any of the abolished 10 commandments are mentioned. There is no urging of people to worship in relation to the Sabbath. This author is being decietful. The mark is what the bible says it is. An engraving that prevents those who don’t have it from buying and selling.
The text seems to indicate that as the Sabbath will be the distinctive sign of obedience to God in keeping his commandments in the final crisis, so the mark of the beast, the counterfeit Sabbath (in contrast to the seventh-day Sabbath) will become the sign of obedience to the beast. The receiving of the mark of the beast will thus stand in direct opposition to obedience to God’s commandments. One can certainly agree with William G. Johnson that “while the non observance of the Sabbath- or Sunday- observance is not the ‘mark’ per se just now, both are integral to its end-time enforcement. The Sabbath, anciently the ‘sign’ of the people of God (Exod 31:13; Ezek 20:20), will again come to the fore to show the world those who put God first.” “Revelation of Jesus Christ” Ranko Stefanovic 2002 Andrews University Press Berrien Springs Michigan.
Even the author admits that the mark isn’t observance of the Sabbath. The commandments are abolished. There is no reason to observe them from an old testament standpoint.
The seal for Paul was the Holy Spirit in the heart. Also the spirit writes the law on the heart according to the new covenant. So a sealed person is a commandment keeper. [/I]
I’m not sure how you make this connection. A sealed person is one who has been sealed into our inheritance promised by God. We received it by becoming a believer, not by keeping old testament laws.
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Post by Protestant on May 18, 2004 3:13:52 GMT -5
Posted by: keikikoka Posted on: 05/17/2004 at 17:51:12 I read through your posts. I wont waist my time on answering all of it because the answers are in my first post. Rev 13:17 "so that no one could buy or sell unless he had
(1)the mark, which is the name of the beast
or
(2) the number of his name.” NIVthe mark and the number are two different things. This is an assupmtion on your part. Your whole post is based on the heresy that the 10 commandments are abolished. The new covenant has the 10 commandments as an integral part of it. EXODUS 32:15-19. “And Moses turned and went down from the mountain, and the two tablets of the Testimony were in his hand. The tablets were written on both sides; on the one side and on the other they were written. Now the tablets were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God engraved on the tablets. EXODUS 31:18. “And when he had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God."The Ten commandments are the testimony The work of Jesus the New Covenant High Priest was forshadowed by the work of the Hebrew priests HEBREWS 8:1-5 “Now this is the main point of the things we are saying: We have such a High Priest, who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, a minister of the sanctuary and of the true tabernacle which the Lord erected and not man. For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices. Therefore it is necessary that this one have something to offer. For if he were in earth, He would not be a priest, since their are priests who offer the gifts according to the law; who serve the copy and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was divinely instructed when he was about to make the tabernacle. For He said ‘see that you make all things according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.” Christ the great High Priest is in heaven and is a minister of the heavenly sanctuary, which the Lord built, and not man. The Hebrew priests serve at a sanctuary that is a shadow and copy of the sanctuary that is in heaven. To understand the work of Christ our High Priest in the heavenly sanctuary we need to study the work of the Hebrew High Priest in the earthly sanctuary. HEBREWS 9:24. “For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us. The earthly sanctuary made with hands is a copy of the true one in heaven itself. The Ark of the Covenant containing the Ten Commandments written on stone existed in the old covenant sanctuary. There is an Ark of the Covenant containing the Ten Commandments in the new covenant sanctuary in heaven. REVELATION 11:19 “Then the temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of His covenant was seen in His temple. And there were lightnings, noises, thunderings, an earthquake, and great hail.” The Ark of the Covenant is seen in heaven in the new covenant heavenly sanctuary in the Christian era where Jesus is the High Priest. This ark contains God’s mercy seat and the Ten Commandments that are the new covenant. According to Exodus 25:10-22 the ark was made specifically to house the 10 commandments. REVELATION 15:5 “After these things I looked, and behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened.” The heavenly sanctuary is called the tabernacle of the testimony. The tabernacle of the Ten Commandments. The testimony is the Ten Commandments. Ex 31:18. “And when he had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.”. These verses prove that the Ten Commandments are in heaven in the temple of God where Jesus is the High Priest. Therefore the ten commandments have not been abolished but are a part of the new covenant. REVELATION 14:12. “Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus” God’s saints are those people who obey the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus. The commandments of God are the Ten Commandments and the faith of Jesus is the teachings of Christ. The fact that John sees the ark of the Covenant in the New Covenant heavenly sanctuary proves that the Ten Commandments are being referred to. REVELATION 12:17. “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went off to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”The dragon (Satan) makes war on Gods people who obey the commandments of God. LOL. Gal 3:29 "If you belong to Christ, then you are Abrahams seed, and heirs according to the promise." clearly Christians are the new Israel.
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