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Post by Protestant on May 18, 2004 3:24:54 GMT -5
keikikoka
[/I]
I’m not sure how you make this connection. [/quote]
Eph 1:18 "And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of y our salvation. Having believed you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance."
2 CORINTHIANS 3:3 “clearly you are an epistle of Christ, ministered by us, written not with ink but by the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of flesh, that is, of the heart.” Here the Apostle Paul is saying that the law that was written on tablets of stone is the law that is written on the mind and heart by the Spirit. The Ten Commandments.
You misquote scripture when you say that Eph 2:15 says the 10 commandments are abolished.
EPHESIANS 2:11-22Brought Near by His Blood 11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh--who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands-- 12that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
Christ Our Peace 14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. 17And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. 18For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.
Christ Our Cornerstone 19 Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, 21in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.
This entire pkmtyolpage refers to the amalgamation of both Jew and Gentile believers into one NEW group - CHRISTIANS. “Broken down the middle wall of division between us”
“middle wall” literally means: ‘The partition wall which is the fence’
The sacred limits of the Jewish Temple were fenced off by a low balustrade of stone, with columns at intervals. On the columns were inscriptions written in Greek and Latin warning all Gentiles not to pkmtyolp this boundary on pain of death. In 1871 an inscribed stone was discovered in Jerusalem and is now in the museum at Istanbul. This inscription read:-
“Let no foreigner enter within the barrier and enclosing wall about the Temple. But whoever may be caught shall be responsible for his own death that will follow.”
The court of the Israelites was in the inner Temple where no Gentile or foreigner was allowed. Paul is saying that the blood of Christ has broken down this wall of partition that separated Jew and Gentile when it came to worshipping God in the Jerusalem Temple.
verse 19 “Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God.”
As a result of this there is no longer a distinction between Jew and Gentile. When worshipping God the ONE NEW man that has been created from the TWO OLD ones is the CHRISTIAN.
verse 15 “Having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace.”
This verse does not say the ten commandments are abolished. To say that would do away with the new covenant. The law of commandments contained in ordinances refers to the laws regulating worship in the new covenant regarding the segregation of Jew and Gentile. This segregation has been abolished. In the eyes of God the two old men, Jew and Gentile, have been abolished. God only recognises the one NEW man:- the CHRISTIAN man.
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Post by genesda on May 18, 2004 6:29:22 GMT -5
keikikoka Eph 1:18 "And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of y our salvation. Having believed you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance."
2 CORINTHIANS 3:3 “clearly you are an epistle of Christ, ministered by us, written not with ink but by the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of flesh, that is, of the heart.” Here the Apostle Paul is saying that the law that was written on tablets of stone is the law that is written on the mind and heart by the Spirit. The Ten Commandments. You misquote scripture when you say that Eph 2:15 says the 10 commandments are abolished. EPHESIANS 2:11-22Brought Near by His Blood 11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh--who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands-- 12that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
Christ Our Peace 14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. 17And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. 18For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.
Christ Our Cornerstone 19 Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, 21in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit. This entire pkmtyolpage refers to the amalgamation of both Jew and Gentile believers into one NEW group - CHRISTIANS. “Broken down the middle wall of division between us” “middle wall” literally means: ‘The partition wall which is the fence’ The sacred limits of the Jewish Temple were fenced off by a low balustrade of stone, with columns at intervals. On the columns were inscriptions written in Greek and Latin warning all Gentiles not to pkmtyolp this boundary on pain of death. In 1871 an inscribed stone was discovered in Jerusalem and is now in the museum at Istanbul. This inscription read:- “Let no foreigner enter within the barrier and enclosing wall about the Temple. But whoever may be caught shall be responsible for his own death that will follow.” The court of the Israelites was in the inner Temple where no Gentile or foreigner was allowed. Paul is saying that the blood of Christ has broken down this wall of partition that separated Jew and Gentile when it came to worshipping God in the Jerusalem Temple. verse 19 “Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God.”
As a result of this there is no longer a distinction between Jew and Gentile. When worshipping God the ONE NEW man that has been created from the TWO OLD ones is the CHRISTIAN. verse 15 “Having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace.” This verse does not say the ten commandments are abolished. To say that would do away with the new covenant. The law of commandments contained in ordinances refers to the laws regulating worship in the new covenant regarding the segregation of Jew and Gentile. This segregation has been abolished. In the eyes of God the two old men, Jew and Gentile, have been abolished. God only recognises the one NEW man:- the CHRISTIAN man. Glad you'er back Pro. It's been lonesome here. [/color]
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Post by Archangelwolf on May 19, 2004 2:24:41 GMT -5
Man, you almost have it.
There is an Israel. However, the nation of Israel failed in living up to what God intended. However, the person of Israel is manifested in Jesus Christ. Christ is the one-person manifestation of what Israel was supposed to be as a nation. In essence, Jesus Christ IS Israel.
The Ten Commandments are binding because they apply to Israel, that is Jesus Christ, so in effect they apply to us.
However, we are not saved by our following of the Ten Commandments. We are saved by the grace of Jesus Christ on the cross. To say that our salvation depends on an action of ourselves is impious and ridiculous. I would hate to know that my salvation depended on my day to day beliefs, or anyone else's. To believe is an action that we must do. It is not by our action that we can be saved, but by His action on the cross. Jesus already did the action part. We must only accept or reject what He has already done.
The Law, and the Ten Commandments, are what has condemned us into sin. The cross, and the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, is what redeems us into salvation.
Arch.
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Post by Protestant on May 19, 2004 4:50:36 GMT -5
archangeldream
almost ?
I read your post and i agree 100 % with it.
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Post by PhilipDC78 on May 19, 2004 9:15:36 GMT -5
archangeldream almost ? I read your post and i agree 100 % with it. So then you agree that I can still celebrate the sabbath on Sunday and be a real, true Christian?
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Post by Protestant on May 19, 2004 15:38:49 GMT -5
PhilipDC78
absolutely not. How do you come to that conclusion? If you want the mark of the beast then you just keep on observing sunday as the sabbath. i agreed with archangeldream's post because he said that salvation was by faith and that Jesus is the new Israel and that Christians have to observe the commandments. Satan's counterfeit sabbath - sunday was not mentioned.
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Post by genesda on May 20, 2004 6:42:59 GMT -5
Man, you almost have it. There is an Israel. However, the nation of Israel failed in living up to what God intended. However, the person of Israel is manifested in Jesus Christ. Christ is the one-person manifestation of what Israel was supposed to be as a nation. In essence, Jesus Christ IS Israel. The Ten Commandments are binding because they apply to Israel, that is Jesus Christ, so in effect they apply to us. However, we are not saved by our following of the Ten Commandments. We are saved by the grace of Jesus Christ on the cross. To say that our salvation depends on an action of ourselves is impious and ridiculous. I would hate to know that my salvation depended on my day to day beliefs, or anyone else's. To believe is an action that we must do. It is not by our action that we can be saved, but by His action on the cross. Jesus already did the action part. We must only accept or reject what He has already done. The Law, and the Ten Commandments, are what has condemned us into sin. The cross, and the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, is what redeems us into salvation. Arch. I disagree with a couple of things you mentioned and maybe it's only the way you worded it.
First, the law didn't condemn us into sin. It points out what sin is and let's us know we are condemned.
Secondly, Jesus came to save us FROM our sins, not IN our sins.
"Sin is transgression of the law", according to the bible.
Jesus paid the price for our sins and it is through Him that we can have the FREE GIFT OF SALVATION. Now after that gift is accepted, should we continue to live in sin, or should we live within God's law through Jesus' power and reject sin?
Paul said we should not sin.
The bible says that we would never be tempted without a way out of the temptation. That sounds to me like Christians don't have to sin wilfully and can live within God's law. The law doesn't save, but after one is forgiven, he can return the gift of salvation by his own actions. One's name can be removed from the book of life. This is what the investigative judgement is all about. Christians will be judged BEFORE Jesus returns and those found worthy will be taken to meet Jesus in the clouds when He returns and receive their eternal life at that time.[/color]
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Post by PhilipDC78 on May 20, 2004 9:50:01 GMT -5
PhilipDC78 absolutely not. How do you come to that conclusion? If you want the mark of the beast then you just keep on observing sunday as the sabbath. i agreed with archangeldream's post because he said that salvation was by faith and that Jesus is the new Israel and that Christians have to observe the commandments. Satan's counterfeit sabbath - sunday was not mentioned. So then most of the great Christians of the past 2000 years were or are not actually Christians? These all celebrated the Sabbath on Sunday: C S Lewis Billy Graham Oswald Chambers Matthew Henry John Wesley George Whitfield Henry Ward Beecher J. Hudson Taylor Francis Schaeffer William and Catherine Booth Isaac Watts Martin Luther Charles E. Fuller Francis Scott Key Robert Morrison John Newton Jonathan Edwards G.K. Chesterton Jan Hus William Wilberforce Thomas Cranmer John Knox Martin Luther Dietrich Bonhoeffer William Tyndale Ulrich Zwingli John Wycliffe Charles Haddon Spurgeon D.L. Moody Charles G. Finney John Bunyan William Seymour Karl Barth Edward McCully Peter Fleming Jim Elliot Roger Youderian Nate Saint Bill Bright These are just a very few of the people over the past 2000 years that loved God, gave their entire lives to God, sufferred for God, even died for God, and you are saying that they are not Christians? You are sadly, sadly, mistaken.
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Post by genesda on May 20, 2004 10:03:02 GMT -5
So then most of the great Christians of the past 2000 years were or are not actually Christians? These all celebrated the Sabbath on Sunday: C S Lewis Billy Graham Oswald Chambers Matthew Henry John Wesley George Whitfield Henry Ward Beecher J. Hudson Taylor Francis Schaeffer William and Catherine Booth Isaac Watts Martin Luther Charles E. Fuller Francis Scott Key Robert Morrison John Newton Jonathan Edwards G.K. Chesterton Jan Hus William Wilberforce Thomas Cranmer John Knox Martin Luther Dietrich Bonhoeffer William Tyndale Ulrich Zwingli John Wycliffe Charles Haddon Spurgeon D.L. Moody Charles G. Finney John Bunyan William Seymour Karl Barth Edward McCully Peter Fleming Jim Elliot Roger Youderian Nate Saint Bill Bright These are just a very few of the people over the past 2000 years that loved God, gave their entire lives to God, sufferred for God, even died for God, and you are saying that they are not Christians? You are sadly, sadly, mistaken. Many of these came from the Rcc and took certain traditions with them. When there is true ignorance, God winks. There is no need for that ignorance of God's will to be present today.
Just because God may overlook honest ignorance, doesn't mean that He will overlook it forever. The scriptures weren't available for 2000 years, and there is ample evidence that the true Christians broke from the apostate church early on and continued keeping the sabbath of God while the established church changed the sabbath to the pagan Sunday, which God called a common work day.
Today the scriptures with God's truth is available to all and there is no honest ignorance anymore. There are only those who are too stubborn to recognize the truth for whatever reasons. It may be family, a favorite pastor, a particular church, work or whatever. The facts are that the Rcc is the 1st beast of Revelation 13 and it's mark of authority is Sunday sacredness which is the "mark of the beast" When Sunday sacredness becomes univwersal, the mark will become mandatory and will be accepted by almost all of mankind, which leads to aspodfija and the second death in the lake of fire. You still have time to seek the truth. The door to repentence is still open, but it will close shortly before Jesus returns.
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Post by Protestant on May 20, 2004 15:30:55 GMT -5
PhilipDC78
Its not up to me to judge who is a christian and who isnt. Show me where im wrong from scripture. my post on the mark is 100 % accurate. These people were ignorant of the truth on this subject. You dont have that luxury. Geniune christians accept the truth when they hear it.
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Post by PhilipDC78 on May 20, 2004 17:57:52 GMT -5
PhilipDC78 Its not up to me to judge who is a christian and who isnt. Show me where im wrong from scripture. my post on the mark is 100 % accurate. These people were ignorant of the truth on this subject. You dont have that luxury. Geniune christians accept the truth when they hear it. It is a good thing that you do not speak the truth then. But I will not argue with you any more. You do not have the love of Christ in you, or your words.
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Post by Protestant on May 21, 2004 1:43:23 GMT -5
PhilipDC78
i do speak the truth. But you seem to hate the truth.
Who set you up as a judge?
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Post by genesda on May 21, 2004 6:36:10 GMT -5
It is a good thing that you do not speak the truth then. But I will not argue with you any more. You do not have the love of Christ in you, or your words. What you really mean is that you don't know what is true and you just reject what is being shown to you. There is no excuse for not knowing the truth, especially when it is pointed out to you. You CHOOSE to remain in darkness.
[/color]
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Post by RodP on May 26, 2004 20:34:49 GMT -5
So then most of the great Christians of the past 2000 years were or are not actually Christians? These all celebrated the Sabbath on Sunday: C S Lewis Billy Graham Oswald Chambers Matthew Henry John Wesley George Whitfield Henry Ward Beecher J. Hudson Taylor Francis Schaeffer William and Catherine Booth Isaac Watts Martin Luther Charles E. Fuller Francis Scott Key Robert Morrison John Newton Jonathan Edwards G.K. Chesterton Jan Hus William Wilberforce Thomas Cranmer John Knox Martin Luther Dietrich Bonhoeffer William Tyndale Ulrich Zwingli John Wycliffe Charles Haddon Spurgeon D.L. Moody Charles G. Finney John Bunyan William Seymour Karl Barth Edward McCully Peter Fleming Jim Elliot Roger Youderian Nate Saint Bill Bright These are just a very few of the people over the past 2000 years that loved God, gave their entire lives to God, sufferred for God, even died for God, and you are saying that they are not Christians? You are sadly, sadly, mistaken. Many of these came from the Rcc and took certain traditions with them. When there is true ignorance, God winks. There is no need for that ignorance of God's will to be present today.
Just because God may overlook honest ignorance, doesn't mean that He will overlook it forever. The scriptures weren't available for 2000 years, and there is ample evidence that the true Christians broke from the apostate church early on and continued keeping the sabbath of God while the established church changed the sabbath to the pagan Sunday, which God called a common work day.
Today the scriptures with God's truth is available to all and there is no honest ignorance anymore. There are only those who are too stubborn to recognize the truth for whatever reasons. It may be family, a favorite pastor, a particular church, work or whatever. The facts are that the Rcc is the 1st beast of Revelation 13 and it's mark of authority is Sunday sacredness which is the "mark of the beast" When Sunday sacredness becomes univwersal, the mark will become mandatory and will be accepted by almost all of mankind, which leads to aspodfija and the second death in the lake of fire. You still have time to seek the truth. The door to repentence is still open, but it will close shortly before Jesus returns.
[/color][/quote] Unfortunately your postion is a tragically legalistic. I do feel that God, in His infite andforgiving heart might consider that anyone who gives Him a day of praise and Glory might be expemted. Whether it be a sunday or a saturday. What are they?? Days. What does God require? A day, And your heart. "nuff said"
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Post by Protestant on May 27, 2004 2:50:53 GMT -5
RodP
.
For you to make a comment like this shows an ignorance of the new covenant and of the subject of the mark of the beast.
thats what happens when you go by feeling instead of scripture.
God requires obedience through Grace. To say that obedience to God is legalism is heresy. "nuf said"
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