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Post by TarueBeliever on Apr 15, 2004 11:16:01 GMT -5
Then why do YOU & many Christians depend on what has been written about Jesus & what Jesus said many years after his death?...and please stop copying those things here as a response. Try thinking for yourself, and if possible, write what the Holy Spirit has revealed to you. I agree that the writings about Jesus, his mother Mary, God, and the Apostles that were written some 150 to 750 years after the death of Jesus by Catholic Church founders and priests are just irrational fantasy.
However, men who knew Jesus personally or were “approved” by men who knew Jesus personally either wrote the Scriptures of the New Testament. The Gospels in the New Testament are as close to an eyewitness account of the life and actual words of Jesus Christ as we can get.
I do not believe the dating methods used by so-called scholars are in any way correct. The content of the New Testament was complete by the end of the 1st Century AD.
As for what the Holy Spirit has revealed to me ... it's not that the Spirit has appeared before me in a ghost-like form and made a proclamation or was a loud voice in my head that pronounced inspired words.
I've spent a great deal of time studying the Bible. When I'm out and about in the day and I'm troubled, the Spirit reminds me, brings appropriate pkmtyolpages of Scripture to mind just right for the situation to comfort me. When I'm tempted to do something wrong, the Holy Spirit sort of holds me back long enough for me to realize the truth of the situation. On a beautiful, warm, sunny day the Spirit reminds me to praise God for my many blessings.
It's difficult to explain sometimes. I'm quite sure you would call it irrational. It's partly a feeling. The closest description I've come up with is that it feels like my Dad's hand is on my shoulder, squeezing gently. Every now and then the feeling of the hand changes. It can be a soft pushing, a slight shove, a turning to the left or right. Not forcing me. I'm still free to go my way. Sometimes the hand is a pinch of admonition or a pat of praise. So far, I've lived 22 years and 61 days with this feeling.
I consider myself to be a rational individual. I have a degree in mechanical engineering. I graduated summa cum laude. My tested IQ is around 142. I served as an Engineering Officer in US Air Force Special Operations Command (I was like a "MacGyver"). I was raised by Christain parents but did not become a Christian myself until I was an adult. I find nothing irrational about Christianity.
Scott
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Post by kkawohl on Apr 15, 2004 12:17:15 GMT -5
I was raised by Christain parents but did not become a Christian myself until I was an adult. I find nothing irrational about Christianity.
Scott Scott, Your feelings are not irrational, the Spirit of God is communicating with your spirit, yet the mind often can not interpret this interaction. I highly respect much of what Christianity teaches but there are niches within it relating to superstitions which are completely irrational. Terrorism has many forms. Many people nowadays refer to terrorism as being perpetrated mostly by Muslim radicals without realizing that a form of terrorism that is thrust upon our susceptible youth today by fundamentalist Christians is much more damaging psychologically to them then if they witnessed an actual act of terrorism or an execution. The psychological wounds that they inflict are carried by many throughout their entire lives. These youths are indoctrinated toward a biased thought process that eliminates open communications amongst religions. Christians who preach and promote, “Unless you become a Christian, you will burn in hell. Your soul will not be with God unless you become a Christian. Repent and be a Christian or the devil will get you”, or many of the biblical phrases attributed toward punishment unless you become a Christian, should be labeled as being prejudiced religious terrorists. Namaste, Kurt Please peruse my book which can be accessed FREE at: www.transcendentalism.us/ (All profits from the book are donated to charities) I have posted on numerous boards. The surprising results have been that many who practice logical reasoning have suggested as an answer to religious radicals, that they read my book.
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Post by ARKCOV on Apr 15, 2004 15:21:07 GMT -5
kkawohl: Christians who preach and promote, “Unless you become a Christian, you will burn in hell. Your soul will not be with God unless you become a Christian. Repent and be a Christian or the devil will get you”, or many of the biblical phrases attributed toward punishment unless you become a Christian, should be labeled as being prejudiced religious terrorists.
ARKCOV: Christians do not preach or promote these things. Jesus Christ and God almighty preach and promote these things. They are found in the New Testament. Don't attack the messenger simply because you disagree with the message. Jesus said none come to the Father except by/through me. He is the way, the truth and the life. Your to caught up in worldly thought and are trying to be everything to everybody. You can't pick and choose what you will follow out of the Bible according to your liking. Contrary to what you believe there is only one RIGHT way to God and that is through his son - Jesus the Christ. You either accept and believe that or you don't. Simple as that. All religions (as you may believe) do not lead to the one true God. Only Christ can take you there - all others are perpetrating a falsity or better put a LIE.
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Post by FaithOfAMustardSeed on Apr 15, 2004 15:57:55 GMT -5
Christians who preach and promote, “Unless you become a Christian, you will burn in hell. Your soul will not be with God unless you become a Christian. Repent and be a Christian or the devil will get you”, or many of the biblical phrases attributed toward punishment unless you become a Christian, should be labeled as being prejudiced religious terrorists. Let me get this straight ... you're comparing Christians who make statements, with words, such as "I think you should join a religion that promotes love between people, doing what is right, self sacrifice, devotion to family and following the one true God through his son, Jesus Christ, or else you'll end up spending an eternity suffering in Hell." to groups such as Al Quaida, Aum Shinrikyo, Hizballah, al-Jihad, and HAMAS that KILL thousands of people with BOMBS hidden in cars and ON CHILDREN?
Let me get this straight ... you're comparing double-dealing terrorist rats like Yasir Arrafat to Christians who risk their lives to alleviate suffering in third-world countries?
Let me get this straight ... you're comparing the followers of the Prince of Peace to people whose idea of getting a point across is to crash aircraft into skyscrapers in a densely populated city causing the murder of thousands?
I think YOU have redefined the meaning of irrational. Christians are not terrorists. They care about their fellow human beings. I don't want my neighbor to suffer now in this life. I do what I can to help. I don't want my neighbor to spend eternity suffering either. All I can do is tell him the truth about Jesus Christ and what Jesus has done for me and then live like I believe it.
FOAMS
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Post by kkawohl on Apr 15, 2004 16:18:54 GMT -5
Christians do not preach or promote these things. Jesus Christ and God almighty preach and promote these things.. You are 100% incorrect. God never has & never will interfere in the physical universe. God is spiritual, guides its development like a Master Planner, blesses & inspires mankind, and interacts with man's spirit. Jesus is a son of God, as we are God's children & Jesus & the souls of past prophets are now a part of God. See www.near-death.com/forum/0157.htmlYou are 100% incorrect again and a promoter of exclusivity and prejudice.
The Scenario:
The souls of a Rabbi, a Christian minister, and a Islamic cleric appeared at the gates of heaven at the same time and they eye each other suspiciously. St. Peter (the gatekeeper) asked if there is a problem.
The Rabbi tells St. Peter , "Ours is the true religion. We have the word of God that this is so and it is written in the Torah that God said that we are the chosen children of God, not the Christians or the Muslims."
The Christian minister says, "Jesus told us that he is the son of God and that the only way to God was by following his teachings and that unless one is born again, one would not get into heaven. What Jesus said is the word of God and it is written in the holy Bible".
The Muslim cleric says, "God has told Muhammad that he was the last true prophet and that everything that God told him was written in the Koran and that those who did not follow what was written there, would not get into heaven".
Other souls appeared and some sided with and gathered around each of their leaders, while some other souls who sided with no one entered directly through the gates of heaven.
St. Peter told the souls who had gathered around the souls of their clerics, "In heaven there can be no disagreement and until you all are in agreement, you have to move to the Purgatory area".
No agreement was reached and eventually the souls died (Hell) because souls who were not with God could not exist.
The lesson is: Having tunnel-vision or being closed-minded, without compkmtyolpion for the belief of others around you can be bad for the body and suicide to the soul.
Kurt
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Post by ARKCOV on Apr 15, 2004 16:30:28 GMT -5
Kurt: You are 100% incorrect. God never has & never will interfere in the physical universe. God is spiritual, guides its development like a Master Planner, blesses & inspires mankind, and interacts with man's spirit. Jesus is a son of God, as we are God's children & Jesus & the souls of past prophets are now a part of God. See... ARKCOV: Speaking of "seeing" - please SEE BIBLE ! ever thought of that. Quit trying to steer me to some website that agrees with your line of thought. You are ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT about me being "incorrect" which shows in your aforementioned statements as you seem to know nothing with regards to Christ or God. Where on earth do you come up with some of this crap ? Where in the scriptures does it say that God does not "interfere" with his creation - the "physical' universe as you call it Your a trip. I'll be praying for you - physically and mentally. Poor Poor Kurt - Now who is being "narrow minded" as the road to Christ/God is a "narrow" one. By the way what does 'narrow minded" mean other than some 20th century catch phrase that people like you use when someone like me shows you the truth. Hahahaha ! Like I said your a trip ........and then some. Take it easy - and try reading the Bible BEFORE making false statements...... "In today’s world there are many ways to hope, happiness and Heaven being proclaimed. There are many philosophies, religions, and ideas. Each one believes it has the ultimate truth. Human life is held in high esteem. Most of us want to live on this earth as long as possible. Within each of us there is a desire to live forever. But there is only one way to real happiness. There is only one truth that can make men free. There is only one Life that can give human beings eternal life. Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is "the Way, the Truth and the Life." As Jesus Himself professed, "I am the way, the truth, and the life; No man cometh unto the Father, but by me" (John 14:6). Jesus is "the way, the truth, and the life" because He died for our sins. All have sinned by transgressing God’s law (Romans 3:23; 1 John 3:4). The "wages of sin is death" (Romans 6:23). This is the second death or Hell (Revelation 21:8; Matthew 10:28). Because of our sins, we justly deserve to spend eternity in Hell, but God in His great love and mercy sent His Son to die on the cross and pay the penalty for our sins (John 3:16,17; Romans 5:6-10; 6:17-23). Jesus is "the way, the truth, and the life" because He was raised from the dead. Before Christ came, a dark grave without hope awaited us at the end of the way. But Christ conquered death and arose from the grave. Because He conquered death, He can give us victory over death (1 Corinthians 15:20-23; Revelation 1:17,18). Jesus said, "I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live" (John 11:25). Jesus is "the way, the truth, and the life" because He will judge all men at the Last Day (Acts 17:30,31). All must stand before Christ and give an account for the way they have lived on this earth. Paul, an inspired apostle wrote: "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that everyone may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad" (2 Corinthians 5:10). Jesus Christ is the only way to Heaven. He alone is the truth. No one can have eternal life except through Him. In order for one to receive the blessings that Christ alone can give, he must believe in Jesus Christ, the Son of the living God for Jesus Himself said, ". . . if ye believe not that I am He, ye shall die in your sins" (John 8:24). One must also repent of his sins for Jesus also said, "Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish" (Luke 13:3). One cannot receive the blessings which Christ gives if he is ashamed of Him. Jesus said, "Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father who is in heaven; but whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father who is in heaven" (Matthew 10:32,33). One must also be baptized into Christ in order to receive the forgiveness of sins and all the blessings which are available only in Him. Jesus said, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be ***ed" (Mark 16:16)." [Excerpt from non-diclosed origin]
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Post by kkawohl on Apr 15, 2004 16:49:40 GMT -5
Let me get this straight ... you're comparing Christians who make statements, with words, such as "I think you should join a religion that promotes love between people, doing what is right, self sacrifice, devotion to family and following the one true God through his son, Jesus Christ, or else you'll end up spending an eternity suffering in Hell." to groups such as Al Quaida, Aum Shinrikyo, Hizballah, al-Jihad, and HAMAS that KILL thousands of people with BOMBS hidden in cars and ON CHILDREN? The Crusades (1095 -1398) were a series of Christian military expeditions to reclaim the Holy Land from the Muslims. Muslims were considered infidels and a threat to Christianity in the East and the "peace of God" at home. Preachers of the crusade pleaded for all to participate in this holy cause, whether rich or poor, experienced in the military or not. With the cry "Deus Vult!" ("God wills it!") Christians slaughtered Muslims everywhere they went. The fighting was fierce, but the unsuspecting Muslims were no match for the bloodthirsty Crusaders, who killed not only fighting men, but also women and children. It all depends through whose eyes you are assessing the situation. They say that Christians & Jews are the terrorists who are killing innocent civilians, including their children.The Prince of Peace advocated peace. Christians who are advocating religious prejudice and exclusivity are promoting the causes of terrorism.
Kurt
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Post by FaithOfAMustardSeed on Apr 15, 2004 18:47:35 GMT -5
The Crusades (1095 -1398) were a series of Christian military expeditions to reclaim the Holy Land from the Muslims. Muslims were considered infidels and a threat to Christianity in the East and the "peace of God" at home. Preachers of the crusade pleaded for all to participate in this holy cause, whether rich or poor, experienced in the military or not. With the cry "Deus Vult!" ("God wills it!") Christians slaughtered Muslims everywhere they went. The fighting was fierce, but the unsuspecting Muslims were no match for the bloodthirsty Crusaders, who killed not only fighting men, but also women and children. Individuals can be Christians. But the Military Campaigns known as the Crusades were hardly in line with the teachings of Jesus Christ. One shouldn't refer to them as "Christian." The Roman Catholic Church has sanctioned many evils in the name of Jesus Christ over the last 16 centuries or so. The RCC gained a great deal of political power through it's teaching that its priests alone controlled the forgiveness of sin and the final destination of the souls of the royalty of Europe. God's word never commanded anyone to Jerusalem to kill anyone to take back the Holy Land. Don't confuse the lust for power and the greed of wealth of evil men with Christianity.What Christians? What Jews? A Muslim is free to worship in a mosque in Jerusalem. A Muslim is free to worship in a mosque in Washington, DC. Is a Jew allowed to go to synagogue in Kashan, Iran? Is a Christian allowed to preach openly on the street in Riyadh?
How is it that Christians in particular are killing Muslims?How does a Christian saying that a belief in Jesus Christ as the Son of God (and all the other teachings in the Bible) is the only way to Heaven incite violence? Your saying that there are many ways to God does not make me angry or fill me with a need to get a hand grenade and blow up the next door neighbor's child. Blaming Christians for the acts of the terrorists is wrong. Terrorists are to blame for the acts of the terrorists.
FOAMS
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Post by HomeAtLast on Apr 15, 2004 20:46:44 GMT -5
The Crusades (1095 -1398) were a series of Christian military expeditions to reclaim the Holy Land from the Muslims. Muslims were considered infidels and a threat to Christianity in the East and the "peace of God" at home. Preachers of the crusade pleaded for all to participate in this holy cause, whether rich or poor, experienced in the military or not. With the cry "Deus Vult!" ("God wills it!") Christians slaughtered Muslims everywhere they went. The fighting was fierce, but the unsuspecting Muslims were no match for the bloodthirsty Crusaders, who killed not only fighting men, but also women and children. Kurt [/color] [/quote] I just saw a show on the crusades, recently. Would that be the same crusaders that numbered 800 and were extrememly outnumbered by the muslims? Blessings, Ann
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Post by kkawohl on Apr 15, 2004 21:51:57 GMT -5
I just saw a show on the crusades, recently. Would that be the same crusaders that numbered 800 and were extrememly outnumbered by the muslims? Blessings, Ann Is history repeating itself? The Crusades lasted 300 years. (1095 -1398)
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Post by HomeAtLast on Apr 15, 2004 23:01:47 GMT -5
Is history repeating itself? The Crusades lasted 300 years. (1095 -1398) here is an interesting and quickly read site that explains the crusades: www.probe.org/docs/crusades.html
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Post by FaithOfAMustardSeed on Apr 16, 2004 8:06:41 GMT -5
Is history repeating itself? The Crusades lasted 300 years. (1095 -1398) What organized military group of Christians is currently invading Muslim held territory?
FOAMS
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Post by FaithOfAMustardSeed on Apr 16, 2004 9:48:46 GMT -5
I think somebody has the Alliance that has invaded Iraq and Afganistan confused with Christianity.
The US & UK aren't "Christian" nations. They aren't doing what they are doing in the Middle East in the name of Jesus Christ. The US Constitution prohibits the US government from acting on the behalf of any religious movement.
One only needs to look at the air waves of the US to see that it's not a "Christian" nation. The filth that floods the TV sets of US every moment is opposed to the values that Christians hold.
Don't confuse the actions of nations with those of the people of Christ.
FOAMS
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Post by Pietro on Aug 9, 2004 15:08:30 GMT -5
Respect and courtesy are not highly valued either in our society or even on this forum. Some cultures show respect for others by bowing and the longer the bow, the more respect is expressed. In karate cpkmtyoll we bow to the front where there are pictures of deceased teachers. We bow to the senior instructor. We bow to the less senior instructors, and we bow to ourselves. To the uninformed it might look like we are worshipping each other, so alien is the notion of simple gestures of respect.
Some people are simply unable to make a distinction between respect and worship. Catholics believe that Mary and the Saints are spiritually alive in God and that we remain a community of faith and so there are expressions of respect and reverence for each other. Unfortunately these expressions are more often directed towards those no longer on this earth rather than those of us who remain.
It is not my intention to defend this ancient Catholic custom. I do want to make an appeal for more sensitivity to respect, reverance, and courtesy in our exchanges not only among like believers but also with fellow humans of any faith or faithlessness.
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