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Post by RealistState on Apr 12, 2004 19:07:57 GMT -5
Here's a prayer to Mary I found that causes me some concern. Could some of our Catholic brethren please explain the sections I have put in bold? O Immaculate Virgin, Mother of the true God and Mother of the Church!, who from this place reveal your clemency and your pity to all those who ask for your protection, hear the prayer that we address to you with filial trust, and present it to your Son Jesus, our sole Redeemer. Mother of Mercy, Teacher of hidden and silent sacrifice, to you, who come to meet us sinners, we dedicate on this day all our being and all our love. We also dedicate to you our life, our work, our joys, our infirmities and our sorrows. Grant peace, justice and prosperity to our peoples; for we entrust to your care all that we have and all that we are, our Lady and Mother. We wish to be entirely yours and to walk with you along the way of complete faithfulness to Jesus Christ in His Church; hold us always with your loving hand. Virgin of Guadalupe, Mother of the Americas, we pray to you for all the Bishops, that they may lead the faithful along paths of intense Christian life, of love and humble service of God and souls. Contemplate this immense harvest, and intercede with the Lord that He may instill a hunger for holiness in the whole people of God, and grant abundant vocations of priests and religious, strong in the faith and zealous dispensers of God’s mysteries. Grant to our homes the grace of loving and respecting life in its beginnings, with the same love with which you conceived in your womb the life of the Son of God. Blessed Virgin Mary, protect our families, so that they may always be united, and bless the upbringing of our children. Our hope, look upon us with compkmtyolpion, teach us to go continually to Jesus and, if we fall, help us to rise again, to return to Him, by means of the confession of our faults and sins in the Sacrament of Penance, which gives peace to the soul. We beg you to grant us a great love for all the holy Sacraments, which are, as it were, the signs that your Son left us on earth. Thus, Most Holy Mother, with the peace of God in our conscience, with our hearts free from evil and hatred, we will be able to bring to all true joy and true peace, which come to us from your son, our Lord Jesus Christ, who with God the Father and the Holy Spirit, lives and reigns for ever and ever. Amen.
(His Holiness John Paul II Mexico, January 1979. Visiting Her Basilica during his first foreign trip as Pope.)Can someone please explain to me how Mary can do these things? I'll take a crack at it! Of course this is how I see it. Others may see it differently. Mother of the Church! I see the Church as the mystical Body of Jesus Christ. And this Body is ALL Christians. It follows that if Jesus iis "The Church", Mary would be the Mother. ask for your protection As a mother protects and guides her children, we ask for her spiritual assistance and guidance. Teacher of hidden and silent sacrifice Agony she suffered to watch Her Son treated so cruely. To withstand this with dignity is something would should all strive for. who come to meet us sinners As an intercessor we beleive She'll stand by the side of any who ask. dedicate to you To declare something fo value. Grant peace, justice and prosperity I see this as through intercession with Her Son, Jesus Christ can this only be done. we entrust to your care all that we have and all that we are As a child places all his trust in their mother, and as Jesus trusted His Mother, we place our spiritual trust in Her. We wish to be entirely yours As Jesus was completely Hers, we wish the same for for us from Her. Grant to our homes Again, through the power of Jesus, Her love. protect our families As the "pro-type" Mother of the Holy Family, we ask for Her Motherly protection. grant us a great love Through the power of Jesus, Her perpetual love. I think that's all of them. But the prayer, when "nit-picked", does it an injustice. A summary of what I think of the prayer would be more in line with this: This is a prayer to the Mother of Jesus, in whom all are redeemed. Due to Her special place I'm sure She had in the Heart of Jesus, we trust that She also has His confidence. With this trust, we ask her to intercede on our behalf with Her Son. And as always, direct and reflect our love to Her Son, Jesus Christ. PS: genesda, no need to add your comments to this. We all already know your opinion that "she's dead and in the grave" and "cannot hear anyone".
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Post by babysis on Apr 12, 2004 19:23:08 GMT -5
Why do you capitalize Mary's pronouns? That is only done for God and Jesus.
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Post by stevec on Apr 12, 2004 19:27:14 GMT -5
Thanks, RealistState.
Others please note--as a fundamentalist Protestant, my opinion of this is more in line with Gene's. I asked this question specifically to Catholics; I am trying to understand their point of view. If you are not Catholic, please refrain from responding.
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Post by RealistState on Apr 12, 2004 19:38:57 GMT -5
Why do you capitalize Mary's pronouns? That is only done for God and Jesus. Basically as a sign of respect. Nothing more than that.
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Post by RealistState on Apr 12, 2004 19:41:18 GMT -5
Thanks, RealistState. Others please note--as a fundamentalist Protestant, my opinion of this is more in line with Gene's. I asked this question specifically to Catholics; I am trying to understand their point of view. If you are not Catholic, please refrain from responding. In line in what respect... soul sleep or the undo honor that Catholic bestow upon Mary. BTW, Catholics are not required to pray to Mary.
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Post by babysis on Apr 12, 2004 19:49:50 GMT -5
Basically as a sign of respect. Nothing more than that. This is going to sound flippant, but if you know me at all, then you know I don't mean it that way, but seriously this was my first thought and I am curious about this. If I have a lot of respect for you, say the same as you have for Mary, is it okay for me to capitalize pronouns in reference to you?
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Post by keikikoka on Apr 12, 2004 19:53:39 GMT -5
Mary was the physical mother of Jesus. Jesus had no spiritual mother, because he was there in the beginning and all things were created through him. Jesus is the spiritual head of the church body and it isn't sound understanding to assume that because Mary was the physical mother of Jesus that she is also the spiritual mother of the chruch.
While I don't doubt that Jesus trusted his mother, it is still an assumption. Prayers shouldn't be built on assumption.
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Post by RealistState on Apr 12, 2004 19:57:31 GMT -5
This is going to sound flippant, but if you know me at all, then you know I don't mean it that way, but seriously this was my first thought and I am curious about this. If I have a lot of respect for you, say the same as you have for Mary, is it okay for me to capitalize pronouns in reference to you? If you want to, but I certainly don't deserve it. Actually, I don't think the Roman Catholic Church normally does that. Maybe I was out of line.
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Post by stevec on Apr 12, 2004 19:57:41 GMT -5
In line in what respect... soul sleep or the undo honor that Catholic bestow upon Mary. BTW, Catholics are not required to pray to Mary. Mary, mostly. I'm not SDA, I don't believe every jot and tittle that comes out of the RCC is straight from the devil. As I said before, I'm a fundy. However, I've found over time that a lot of pre-conceived notions I've had about the RCC are lacking.
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Post by babysis on Apr 12, 2004 20:05:47 GMT -5
If you want to, but I certainly don't deserve it. Actually, I don't think the Roman Catholic Church normally does that. Maybe I was out of line. Guess I've just always seen that as something you do for a deity, for The Diety.
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Post by RealistState on Apr 12, 2004 20:10:47 GMT -5
Mary was the physical mother of Jesus. Jesus had no spiritual mother, because he was there in the beginning and all things were created through him. Jesus is the spiritual head of the church body and it isn't sound understanding to assume that because Mary was the physical mother of Jesus that she is also the spiritual mother of the chruch. Maybe I didn't word that very well. I didn't mean spiritual Mother of Jesus, but spiritual Mother of His mystical Body, the Church, with Jesus as it's head. True, but much is said to have been handed down as apostolic tradition, and hence is not assumed.
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Post by RealistState on Apr 12, 2004 20:30:07 GMT -5
Mary, mostly. I'm not SDA, I don't believe every jot and tittle that comes out of the RCC is straight from the devil. As I said before, I'm a fundy. However, I've found over time that a lot of pre-conceived notions I've had about the RCC are lacking. I too have found I have more in common with my brothers in Christ than I might have previously thought.
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Post by keikikoka on Apr 13, 2004 16:18:47 GMT -5
Why would Mary the mother of the "mystical Body, the Church?" The church is a spiritual instiution. Mary is physicaly connected to Jesus. Mary isn't spiritually or mystically connected the church.
Much is said by who? The RCC? The only tradition spoken of the new testament was for the people in those times to follow the words of that Jesus told his disciples to tell. Those words are recorded in the Gospel and none of it closely resembles RCC doctrine.
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Post by marysia on Apr 13, 2004 16:54:38 GMT -5
was for the people in those times to follow the words of that Jesus told his disciples to tell. Those words are recorded in the Gospel and none of it closely resembles RCC doctrine. tradition handed down -- told to tell -- that's apolostic tradition. traditions are more often than not -- not written down. have you traditions in your family? we have many - they are written no where but handed down generation through generation. now that we've computers, digital cameras and much higher educations - sure we're logging things but back in "the day" it was - tradition. look at football rivals -- there are traditions -- it's not "legally" in writting that this school or that HAS to be a rival -- it's a tradition. figured i'd try football in case you'd no family traditions. being "ethnic" i always assume everyone else does too so... forgive my generalization.
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Post by RealistState on Apr 13, 2004 21:34:13 GMT -5
Much is said by who? The RCC? The only tradition spoken of the new testament was for the people in those times to follow the words of that Jesus told his disciples to tell. Those words are recorded in the Gospel and none of it closely resembles RCC doctrine. I guess apostolic tradition is based on the follwoing line of scripture: John 20:30 - And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book
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