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Post by guidemeLord on Sept 23, 2003 0:32:04 GMT -5
I believe when I die I will receive my gift of eternal life and a resurrection body as did Jesus when He overcame death. I believe I will then be judged according to my works on earth and how wisely I used what He gave to me (parable of the talents).
Now if I were not saved by the blood of Jesus I would be forever separated from God, judged according to the Law and found guilty and without being saved from aspodfija by His blood... I don't even WANT to know where I would be then! Without God it would be awful!
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Kathy
Junior Member
Take no man's opinion, study God's Word for yourself.
Posts: 99
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Post by Kathy on Sept 23, 2003 1:30:14 GMT -5
Believers die No Only the flesh dies. I haven't seen anyone else with my view, so let me explain. The Bible speaks to two different groups of people: 1. Those that have accepted Christ as Lord & Savior 2. The lost When the lost die, I believe they sleep until the judgement. Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: I don't believe a Believer dies! Verses to think on: Mat 22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? When is the resurrection of the Believer? If we are not saved, we are dead in our sins already condimed to judgement. When we accept Christ, we are changed I believe the moment the flesh dies we are in our spiritual bodies and go to be with the Lord. We have two bodies: 1 Cor 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 1 Cor 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 1 Cor 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
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Post by col311 on Sept 23, 2003 11:10:53 GMT -5
Can you show from scripture that Jesus went anywhere else that day? The Bible, and therefore preterism, teaches that upon our physical death and the sowing of our physical bodies into the earth, God gives us a new spiritual body. This is the resurrection of the dead. (1 Corinthians 35-50) First I would like to apologise, for assuming that your belief was based on a certain scripture when I don't even know where you get your belief from. I know very little of your view. And therefore I was putting words in your mouth. I apologise for that. Second: Let's put the issue to where Jesus went aside for now. and lets's address the issue as to what happens when we die. You asked WHEN did this change Bibically? ( as to where we go ) And Behold, the viel of the Temple was torn in two from top to bottom: and the Earth shook and the rocks were split. The tombs were opened and many bodies who had fallen asleep were raised. Matt 27: 51,52 ** I believe this changed for us when he died or when he asended to Heaven. As stated in a previous post Saul looked at Heaven and Saw Jesus standing at the right hand of the Father as if waiting for him In Ch 7. And Here's the proof They went on Stoning Stephen as he called on the Lord and said, "Lord Jesus, receive My spirit!" Acts 7:59 *** To me this does not say Lord Meet me after my Stay in Hades. **
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Post by col311 on Sept 23, 2003 11:27:09 GMT -5
You said in a previous verse that there is no WAITING for our resurrected bodies when we die for BOTH the believer and the un believer if that's the case then explain The Great white throne in Rev 20. Are you trying to say that the Great white throne of judgement happens more than once in the Bible?
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Post by col311 on Sept 23, 2003 11:35:41 GMT -5
Hades and the Lake of fire are two different things un believers spirits are in Hades right now. Satan is not even in the Lake of fire. He would be cast there in the end times. Are you saying that un believers are sent there BEFORE Satan ?
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Post by col311 on Sept 23, 2003 14:34:32 GMT -5
According to God's own word in Thess. The dead won't even rise intil the coming of the Lord.
So according to your view, are you saying that we get resurrected bodies when we die AND at the coming of the Lord?
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Post by janeto on Sept 23, 2003 15:07:35 GMT -5
This is starting to get interesting, to me, at least. I find many views on this topic and I wonder how so many can vary. Sometimes I get confused, as well. Nonetheless...I'm just interjecting here, carry on
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Post by col311 on Sept 23, 2003 17:51:40 GMT -5
See that's the thing, There's a line between having more than one view of something and having so many opinions that you are confused. for now you should at least accept the most popular view and work on studying that view until you are convinced one way or the other. If you find that the more popular view is hard to swallow then, you should study the other views. But its good to have an open mind about the other views to a certain extent. Its certainly not my intent for anyone to become confused. There's a thing called the Christian Research Institute. This place specailizes on Christian Doctrine and weens out the false doctrine and false churches. The president of the Christian research Institute is Hank Hannegraaf. He hosts a daily Q & A radio show on different Christain radio stations through out the world. The name of the show is the Bible answer man. For local listings in your state log on to www.equip.org for more info.
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Post by col311 on Sept 24, 2003 16:29:01 GMT -5
Phillipians 1: 22-24
Paul talks about whether it is better for him to be in the body or present with the Lord. To me he says that as soon as he dies he knows that he would immediatly be with The Lord.
1Thess 4:15-17
The bodies will be resurrected and changed in the coming of the Lord.
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Post by guidemeLord on Sept 26, 2003 2:53:47 GMT -5
According to God's own word in Thess. The dead won't even rise intil the coming of the Lord. So according to your view, are you saying that we get resurrected bodies when we die AND at the coming of the Lord? I am not sure if this is directed to me but I will hazard an answer anyway... I believe the Lord HAS come and it is only natural that any deaths following His return would be immediately judged and sent to their respective eternities. Therefore I believe for each individual there is a White Throne Judgement NOW... When Jesus came again there was a pkmtyolm White Throne Judgement in which the dead before Christ's death were judged and separated from those who by faith were deemed righteous. Then Christ conquered Satan and now sends unbelievers to hell and believers to eternity in His presence. It is late... I hope that makes sense... I will read it tomorrow and see
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Post by parousia70 on Sept 26, 2003 15:23:13 GMT -5
First I would like to apologise, for assuming that your belief was based on a certain scripture when I don't even know where you get your belief from. Apology not necessary, but acepted. Assuming my belief is based on scripture would be a correct assumption on your part anyway. I understand. May I then suggest you adopt and exhaust an inquisitive approach to my view before settling into a combative one? I believe you should immerse yourself in preterist eschatology before you attempt any sort of lucid refutation of it. It's always easier to argue against something you know a thing or two about, anyway. . Fine While the quoted verse above could possibly be construed as evidence for your point about Christ's death, how do you get the ascention out of it? I see no biblical evidence that Those bodies that rose from their graves in Matt 27 did not go on to physically die again, not unlike Lazarus, so how you use this verse as evidence that dead believers go to heaven upon death remains a mystery. I see no relation.
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Post by parousia70 on Sept 26, 2003 15:26:40 GMT -5
You said in a previous verse that there is no WAITING for our resurrected bodies when we die for BOTH the believer and the un believer Not exactly. There indeed is no more waiting for the believer and unbeliever alike, but for the believer there is no waiting for his resurrected body, and for the unbeliever there is no waiting to be cast into the lake of fire. It happens once for all time. From he parousia forward, Jesus is eternally upon the Judgement seat, He is eternally Judge. He Judges forever.
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Post by parousia70 on Sept 26, 2003 15:28:40 GMT -5
According to God's own word in Thess. The dead won't even rise intil the coming of the Lord. But you just told me you believed they at least began to rise at either the crusifixion or the ascention, now you say they don't rise until the 2nd coming (parousia)? That sounds more like your view to me.
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Post by parousia70 on Sept 26, 2003 15:33:13 GMT -5
for now you should at least accept the most popular view and work on studying that view until you are convinced one way or the other. I'm sorry but that is about the worst advice you could ever give anyone. What possible reason for or good could come from accepting any view because it is popular? Keeping an open mind and accepting a view based on it's popularity is oxymoronic. Hank is a partial preterist.
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Post by parousia70 on Sept 26, 2003 15:42:35 GMT -5
Phillipians 1: 22-24 Paul talks about whether it is better for him to be in the body or present with the Lord. To me he says that as soon as he dies he knows that he would immediatly be with The Lord. Here's your dilema: Scripture states that, as of the time of the writing of John, no one had yet ascended into heaven. (John 3:13) And scripture states that no one can be where Christ is until he "Comes again" and receives him unto Himself. (John 14:3) At what point do these "bodyless spirits" get reunited with their physical bodies, according to scripture?
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