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Post by AlphaOmega on Nov 5, 2004 13:52:56 GMT -5
Steve,
I'm no-one's fool, except God's. Better to be a fool for God than a fool for Darwin, or Stephen Hawking or any of the other so-called "experts" who this blind world esteems.
Christian.
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Post by AlphaOmega on Nov 5, 2004 14:04:43 GMT -5
I2AM4AndyChristianOmega7-11 - "And this coming from a man who believes that we are monkeys"No, I don't, and neither does any other scientist. I have stated countless times that we are not monkeys, and not descended from monkeys, but share a common ancestry with them. Remember that bit about you not having the slightest understanding of science? It's showing again. "and that it's theoretically possible to travel back in Time!"Because the work of Hawking et al. has shown this to be the case. The only thing you have contradicting their findings is your oh-so credible word saying it's not possible. "Also, someone once told me that there are scientists who actually doubt that the dimension of Time exists."You've got to be kidding. Your evidence against science is that somebody once told you that some unnamed scientists don't believe something? Do you have any concept of how to logically support a claim? --Big Daddy Traf Strong like bull The statements above demonstrate the mentality of some so-called "experts", including yourself. You have stated previously that scientists cpkmtyoll human beings as being "modern apes". Time travel has not actually been proven, though Stephen Hawkings claims it's possible. Interesting that it's never been captured on film. And no-one can truly understand Time. Those who try end up not knowing what to believe. Christian.
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Post by LauraJean on Nov 5, 2004 15:28:13 GMT -5
Except that blaspheming the Holy Spirit isn't the only sin that can send people to Hell. The verse I posted notwithstanding.....? The theology behind this statement is so patently bad and demonstrably false I hardly know where to start. How about with Romans 6? Or Titus 3? Or 1Timothy 1? But possibly the best reminder that ALL of our sins are forgiven, and not because of anything we've done is this: Ephesians 2:4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions--it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.You've admitted yourself that scripture can be understood in many different ways. Traf isn't knowingly leading people into false truths. He is looking at scripture in light of what scientific evidence shows him and he looks at scientific evidence in light of what he knows from scripture. He has never denied God's hand in creation. He just thinks that the first 11 chapters of Genesis mean something different than you do. Any sins he has (or will) commit(ted) have been washed clean, just as yours have. To call that into question as you did flies in the face of Jesus's admonition in Matthew 7 and Luke 6. Blessings, LJ
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Post by AlphaOmega on Nov 6, 2004 5:53:00 GMT -5
The verse I posted notwithstanding.....? The theology behind this statement is so patently bad and demonstrably false I hardly know where to start. How about with Romans 6? Or Titus 3? Or 1Timothy 1? But possibly the best reminder that ALL of our sins are forgiven, and not because of anything we've done is this: Ephesians 2:4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions--it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.You've admitted yourself that scripture can be understood in many different ways. Traf isn't knowingly leading people into false truths. He is looking at scripture in light of what scientific evidence shows him and he looks at scientific evidence in light of what he knows from scripture. He has never denied God's hand in creation. He just thinks that the first 11 chapters of Genesis mean something different than you do. Any sins he has (or will) commit(ted) have been washed clean, just as yours have. To call that into question as you did flies in the face of Jesus's admonition in Matthew 7 and Luke 6. Blessings, LJ Nice post. Did you know that on the Day of Judgement there are those so-called Christians who will say "Lord, Lord, didn't we cast out demons in your name?" and He will say "Away from me you wicked people, I never knew you"? As for Traffic, I have yet to see him place greater confidence in the Word of God than the words of fallen men. Do you really think that Satan isn't crafty enough to use so-called "science" to serve his own agenda? I certainly believe he can. And he does. And he's been busy on these boards. Christian.
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Post by marysia on Nov 6, 2004 11:41:38 GMT -5
science too is a gift from God. some are gifted with the ability to create, analyze and discover. it strikes me as odd, that one can claim negativity against another denomination by the "word of a friend" yet, can't comprehend that there are those who rely on evidence, when it comes to making vairous decisions.
i have never heard/read traffic talk against God. his views on some scripture is different than mine, just as yours is to mine and so on and so forth. not every person, at any given time will read the same verse in the exact same manner. this is based upon our own God given lives and where He has taken us.
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Post by Traffic Demon on Nov 6, 2004 13:05:46 GMT -5
I2AM4AndyChristianOmega7-11 - "And because I'm human, and happen to be one who isn't afraid to call garbage 'garbage' and lies 'lies',"See, that's all you've done is call the presently accepted scientific theories "garbage" and "lies." You have done nothing to actually demonstrate that they really are. You have an amazing ability to spout off random claims on any topic, but consistently fail to back up those claims with anything of any substance. "It's some time ago since I came clean about the usernames, which wasn't anything like as bad as the continued, unashamed, promoting of the evolution lies that is going on elsewhere on these boards."Actually, it was, since it was conclusively shown that you were lying in doing so, while a combined 1676 posts on the Interpretation of Genesis - Why? and The Collapse of Evolution threads have produced nothing to demonstrate that evolutionary theory is in any way a lie. "I continue to wonder when Christians, who have so far been only too accommodating of these lies, will finally decide 'enough is enough', and stand up for the Truth that is the Word of God, instead of the Theory of Evolution/Darwinism which is an atheistic untruth."Ah, another trio of falsehoods for you. We've got the fact that not once has anybody on this board, or anybody in the world for that matter, shown that evolutionary theory is a lie. There's the fact that you are falsely insisting that support for evolutionary theory and belief in the truth of the Bible are mutually exclusive to one another. There's your claim that evolutionary theory is somehow atheistic, when the truth is that just like any other scientific principle, evolutionary theory makes zero statements denying the existence of deities of any sort. I always find it rpkmtyoleuring to note that while you can only claim that I am lying, I can actually prove it when you are spreading lies. "And in this case, the 'log' is the unashamed promotion of the lie that is the Theory of Evolution/Darwinism"I'm sorry, where is your evidence that would demonstrate evolutionary theory to be a lie in any way? Oh, that's right, you don't have any. How is it that you are you still under the impression that people will believe anything you say when you have nothing to support those claims except your credibility which has been shot up more than Scott Weiland? "But which one has the power to send unbelievers to Hell? Is it what I did with my usernames, or is it Traffic telling people not to place their confidence in what God says about our creation, etc?"Where have I ever made such a statement? I have placed my full confidence in what God says about our Creation, both through His Word and the evidence of His Creation, and certainly encouraged others to do the same. "Then I was caught out when people started getting suspicious of the special relationship between 'I2AM4GOD' and 'AlphaOmega'."No, you were caught in about your second or third post when we noticed that the posts by both names were identical in style and content. We didn't even need you slipping up about your injury on both accounts to figure you out. "Any unrepented of sin has that power, including the sin of knowingly leading people into false truths. Traffic has been warned about this by other Christians."And we're back to the fact that neither you nor anyone else on this board (or any other) has shown my scientific claims to be false in any way. As always, all the evidence is on my side. "Better to be a fool for God than a fool for Darwin, or Stephen Hawking or any of the other so-called 'experts' who this blind world esteems."Still want to claim that you don't use scare quotes? If you want to detract from the credibility of Darwin, Hawking, or any other scientist, instead of implying some sort of fault in their claims through scare quotes, try dealing with the evidence supporting those claims. Your consistent failure to do so shows that you have no real interest in the truth, but only in asserting your own dogma at any cost. "You have stated previously that scientists cpkmtyoll human beings as being 'modern apes'."Yes, but this is not the same as stating that we are monkeys. The terms "ape" and "monkey" do not refer to the same animals. Try learning a little about science before you would question the claims of scientists. "Time travel has not actually been proven, though Stephen Hawkings claims it's possible."Hawking has done more than claim that time travel is possible, through his work and the work of his colleagues, he has shown that it is, at least on the microscopic level. "Interesting that it's never been captured on film."Not really, since it was never claimed that it had, and since direct observation of a phenomenon is not a prerequisite to demonstrating its occurrence. "And no-one can truly understand Time. Those who try end up not knowing what to believe."Would you care to back up that claim with anything of any substance? Of course not, you don't do evidence. You sit back, spewing forth random unsupported claims whenever somebody challenges what you would hope to be true, and hope that if you throw out enough of them, at least some of them will stick. This one, like all the rest of your scientific claims, has no support of any kind. "As for Traffic, I have yet to see him place greater confidence in the Word of God than the words of fallen men."Look again. I have insisted that God's Word remain true even when the physical evidence would seem to contradict such truth. Instead of siding entirely with science and claiming the fantastic events of Gen. 1-11 to be false, or blindly denying the existence or validity or that evidence, I have through faith reconciled God's Word with His Creation. "you really think that Satan isn't crafty enough to use so-called 'science' to serve his own agenda? I certainly believe he can. And he does. And he's been busy on these boards."Ah, one of the most priceless claims of the young Earth creationists; if the physical evidence just refuses to go away, claim it to be the result of Satan's involvement. Problem is, if you would assert such involvement, the burden of proof lies on you to demonstrate it. I'd love to see you try. Shoot, if you could do it, James Randi has a million bucks in the bank for you. Then again, given your credibility on this board, I'm sure nobody expects you to even try. --Strong Traf Ditka
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Post by TarueBeliever on Nov 7, 2004 18:35:19 GMT -5
Would you guys ple-e-e-e-a-se try to stay on the topic? Quit arguing with each other here. Kindly take your personal conflict to a private place.
Do you or do you not have anything to say about what happens to the souls (or spirits) of Christians who have already died up to this point in time?
Jesus said to a Pharisee who had invited him over to eat ...
12b When you give a luncheon or a dinner, do not invite your friends or your brothers or your relatives or rich neighbors, otherwise they may also invite you in return and that will be your repayment. 13 But when you give a reception, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, 14 and you will be blessed, since they do not have the means to repay you; for you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous. Luke 14:12-14 NASB
We are not rewarded in Heaven. We are rewarded at the resurrection. After which we go to the New Jesusalem which is on the new earth, not in Heaven.
Scott
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Post by Pietro on Nov 8, 2004 9:29:50 GMT -5
We are not rewarded in Heaven. We are rewarded at the resurrection. After which we go to the New Jesusalem which is on the new earth, not in Heaven.
Scott
That seems entirely too literal, taking wonderful spiritual imagery and turning it into a material expectation
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Post by LauraJean on Nov 8, 2004 10:04:21 GMT -5
We are not rewarded in Heaven. We are rewarded at the resurrection. After which we go to the New Jesusalem which is on the new earth, not in Heaven.
Then what is heaven for? I'm still not convinced that your reading is correct, that "paradise" and "heaven" are mutually exclusive terms. .....Still studying the issue.... Blessings, LJ
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Post by TarueBeliever on Nov 8, 2004 12:14:14 GMT -5
That seems entirely too literal, taking wonderful spiritual imagery and turning it into a material expectation Who said anything about a "material" reward? Jesus said, "you will be blessed, ..." In Greek it's "maka'rios e'sêi, ..." meaning, "you will be happy, ..."
It would nonsense to expect material rewards at the resurrection. Gold and silver will have no value then. There will be nothing to buy. No one to pay. In New Jerusalem, all our needs are met by God. We spend eternity with God there if we have been Christians in this life. That is our reward.
Scott
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Post by TarueBeliever on Nov 8, 2004 12:49:27 GMT -5
Think about this ...
Where was the Throne of David?
Was it in Heaven or on Earth?
It was on Earth of course.
The prophet Isaiah wrote ...
6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace. 7 There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace, On the throne of David and over his kingdom, To establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness From then on and forevermore. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will accomplish this. Isaiah 9:6-7 NASB
31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name Him Jesus. 32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David; 33 and He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end. Luke 1:31-33 NASB
Jesus will be seated on the Throne of David forever.
Scott
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Post by TarueBeliever on Nov 8, 2004 14:15:19 GMT -5
The apostle Paul wrote ...
For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith. Romans 4:13 NASB
Abraham was promised that he and his desendents would inherit the world ... the earth.
But the humble will inherit the land And will delight themselves in abundant prosperity. Psalm 37:11 NASB
Jesus said ...
Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. Matthew 5:5 NASB
I believe God promised that those who followed his ways would have live eternal life in real bodies on earth forever, not as disembodied spirits in Heaven.
Scott
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Post by AlphaOmega on Nov 16, 2004 10:01:24 GMT -5
science too is a gift from God. some are gifted with the ability to create, analyze and discover. it strikes me as odd, that one can claim negativity against another denomination by the "word of a friend" yet, can't comprehend that there are those who rely on evidence, when it comes to making vairous decisions. i have never heard/read traffic talk against God. his views on some scripture is different than mine, just as yours is to mine and so on and so forth. not every person, at any given time will read the same verse in the exact same manner. this is based upon our own God given lives and where He has taken us. Marysia, I'm not saying that Traffic has ever spoken against God. That isn't the issue. The issue is this: Does He take what God says seriously? He doesn't seem to. Yes, the ability to seek knowledge is a gift from God. But false knowledge doesn't add to the knowledge we already possess, rather it can draw us away from the Truth. As for the RCC - I have previously mentioned the fact that on two occasions I actually visited one of their churches, and on both occasions I felt uncomfortable. I also have a friend who used to be a Roman Catholic, until God showed her that Roman Catholicism is false. She's Italian and understands it only too well. I know a number of Christians who say it's false, and I have no reason to believe otherwise. For example, there is the obsession with the Virgin Mary, who was no longer a virgin after she gave birth to Christ. Then there's the false belief that the bread and the wine of the Holy Communion somehow change into the flesh and blood of Christ, thus rendering the crucifixion of Christ a vain act as He has continued to be crucified ever since. And that must also mean that He isn't sitting at the right hand of the Father in Heaven, because Mary is mediating with God while He's still on the cross. What heresy! Christian.
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Post by TarueBeliever on Nov 16, 2004 15:15:24 GMT -5
Marysia, I'm not saying that Traffic has ever spoken against God. That isn't the issue. The issue is this: Does He take what God says seriously? He doesn't seem to. Yes, the ability to seek knowledge is a gift from God. But false knowledge doesn't add to the knowledge we already possess, rather it can draw us away from the Truth. As for the RCC - I have previously mentioned the fact that on two occasions I actually visited one of their churches, and on both occasions I felt uncomfortable. I also have a friend who used to be a Roman Catholic, until God showed her that Roman Catholicism is false. She's Italian and understands it only too well. I know a number of Christians who say it's false, and I have no reason to believe otherwise. For example, there is the obsession with the Virgin Mary, who was no longer a virgin after she gave birth to Christ. Then there's the false belief that the bread and the wine of the Holy Communion somehow change into the flesh and blood of Christ, thus rendering the crucifixion of Christ a vain act as He has continued to be crucified ever since. And that must also mean that He isn't sitting at the right hand of the Father in Heaven, because Mary is mediating with God while He's still on the cross. What heresy! Christian. What, if anything, do your above remarks have to with the topic? You're still discussing how you feel about a member of this forum. Why don't you discuss your feelings with that member in PRIVATE!
As to your discussion of the Roman Catholic Church, how does this tie into the topic of this thread, "Do Christians Go to Heaven After Death?" If you're not going to make a tie into the topic, go rant somewhere else.
Scott
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Post by Traffic Demon on Nov 16, 2004 15:56:44 GMT -5
I2AM4AndyChristianOmega7-11 - "I'm not saying that Traffic has ever spoken against God."
But you have made such claims several times, and they have been false every time.
"The issue is this: Does He take what God says seriously?"
And the answer is yes.
"He doesn't seem to."
No, I don't take you seriously. If you haven't noticed, you are not God, there is a difference between not taking you seriously and not taking Him seriously.
"Yes, the ability to seek knowledge is a gift from God."
Then why do you reject it when that ability leads us to conclusions that contradict what you would hope to be true.
"But false knowledge doesn't add to the knowledge we already possess"
That's nice. All you have to do now is show that any of my scientific claims actually are false; merely claiming that they are false doesn't cut it.
--El Traf Bad like Jim Jones, I'll take you out with one punch
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