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Post by genesda on Apr 5, 2004 5:16:07 GMT -5
No, caps signify a proper name, etc. This is regards to a denomination... such like Seventh Day Advent (sorry if I got that wrong) or Baptist. The denomination is capitalized because it's a proper name. Proper as in Catholic, meaning all worldwide faiths. The Seventh Day Adventist (catholic) church is worldwide also. [/color]
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Post by genesda on Apr 5, 2004 5:20:04 GMT -5
gene, Still refusing to find out what the RCC really teaches and still spreading out of context statements and misconceptions, huh? Blessings, Ann You don't hesitate to say I'm wrong, but never where. What in my post you responded to is incorrect, or out of context? You may word what I said differently, but the end result is just what I wrote.
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Post by genesda on Apr 5, 2004 5:23:55 GMT -5
Nic, You missed a very important word in the paragraph. In the first sentence, which you highlighted, It says From a Catholic perspective, having to rely on the Scriptures alone to prove the teachings of the Church is illogical and "unbiblical.etc.....The author is addressing the issue of sola scriptura. Blessings, ann I agree that the topic is sola scriptura, but it is you who has missed the point of what "Catholic" is referring to. Read the next sentence and it becomes clear that the Roman church is being referred to in the first sentence. The first sentence is also the exact Rc position on the scriptures.
The Council of Trent, in response to the Reformers' doctrine of justification by faith alone, states the following: If anyone says that justifying faith is nothing else but confidence in the divine mercy which remits sin for Christ's sake alone; or, that this confidence alone is that whereby we are justified, let him be anathema (Session VI, Canon 12).
If anyone says that the sacraments of the New Law are not necessary for salvation but, that without them, men obtain from God through faith alone the grace of justification, let him be anathema (Session 7, Canons on the Sacraments in General, 4 [italics mine]).
"If anyone says that after the reception of the grace of justification the guilt is so remitted and the debt of eternal punishment so blotted out to every repentant sinner, that no debt of temporal punishment remains to be discharged either in this world or in purgatory before the gates of heaven can be opened, let him be anathema." (Council of Trent, 6th Session, Chapter XVI, Can. 30)
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Post by genesda on Apr 5, 2004 5:35:08 GMT -5
LOL gene, The disputes come in when people of different interpretation disagree on that interpretation. The RCC is based on the Bible and the traditions reinforce the Bible and Jesus teachings. (Are you a standup commedian?) Blessings, Ann Is praying to Mary a Rc tradition?
Didn't Jesus say to pray to the Father in His name?
Didn't Jesus say, "call no man Father"?
Don't you call "priests" "Father"?
Isn't the pope called "The Holy Father"?
Doesn't the bible forbid contacting the dead?
Didn't Mary, Peter, Paul and John all die?
If you can laugh at these biblical facts that I'm presenting here and still say you follow God's word with a straight face, I don't know what else I can say for your amusement. [/color]
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Post by babysis on Apr 5, 2004 10:57:38 GMT -5
No, caps signify a proper name, etc. This is regards to a denomination... such like Seventh Day Advent (sorry if I got that wrong) or Baptist. The denomination is capitalized because it's a proper name. Proper as in Catholic, meaning all worldwide faiths. The Seventh Day Adventist (catholic) church is worldwide also. [/color][/quote] It is not my fault you don't understand how the words are used here, even when they are explained here. The little "c" refers to the universal Christian church, the big "C" refers to the denomination of Catholic. That is how it is done here and that is how people understand that. You can accept it or not, but don't badger people for doing it the way it is done on this board.
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Post by HomeAtLast on Apr 5, 2004 12:05:34 GMT -5
LOL gene, The disputes come in when people of different interpretation disagree on that interpretation. The RCC is based on the Bible and the traditions reinforce the Bible and Jesus teachings. (Are you a standup commedian?) Blessings, Ann Is praying to Mary a Rc tradition?
Nope biblical....the bible says that we should others to pray for us and we should pray for others.
Didn't Jesus say to pray to the Father in His name?
He sure did.....as we do.
Didn't Jesus say, "call no man Father"?
Examples Where Jesus Uses the Word "Father" When Teaching:
Matt. 15:4-5; 19:19 - Jesus uses "father" when He teaches God's commandment to "Honor your father and your mother."
Mark 7:10-12; Luke 18:20 - these are more examples of Jesus using "father" when teaching about honoring our fathers and mothers.
Eph. 6:2,4 - Paul also teaches to honor your "father" and mother, and says "fathers," do not provoke your children.
Matt. 10:21; 35,37; Mark 13:12 - Jesus says "father" will deliver up his child in the last days.
Matt. 19:5; Mark 10:7,19 - Jesus says a man shall leave his "father" and mother and be joined to his wife. See also Eph. 5:31.
Matt. 19:29; Mark 10:29-30 - Jesus says whoever has left mother or "father" for His sake shall receive a hundredfold.
Matt. 21:31 - Jesus uses "father" when he teaches about the parable of the two sons and asks, "who did the will of his "father?"
Luke 6:23,26 - Jesus speaks about reward and punishment with reference to what their "fathers" did to the prophets.
Luke 11:11 - Jesus says what "father" among you will give his child a serpent when he asks for a fish.
Luke 11:47-48 - Jesus tells the lawyers they are witnesses to the deeds of their "fathers."
Luke 14:26 - Jesus says we must leave our "fathers" and mothers and come to him, or we cannot be His disciple.
Luke 15:12,17-18,20-22,27-29 - Jesus repeatedly uses "father" when teaching about the prodigal son.
Luke 16:27 - Jesus uses "father" when teaching about the rich man in purgatory.
John 6:49,58 - Jesus says your "fathers" ate the manna in the wilderness and died.
Don't you call "priests" "Father"?
Yep, sure do...see above.
Isn't the pope called "The Holy Father"?
See above.
Doesn't the bible forbid contacting the dead?
Yes, that is why we do not...plus I do not know how to do that. Actually if you want to be technical (as you susually do) it forbids necromancy: purpose of conjuring up the dead to reveal the future. (according to the Webster Dictionary.
Didn't Mary, Peter, Paul and John all die?
yep.
If you can laugh at these biblical facts that I'm presenting here and still say you follow God's word with a straight face, I don't know what else I can say for your amusement. [/color][/quote] Oh, I am sure that you will come up with something.
Blessings, Ann
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Post by genesda on Apr 6, 2004 5:47:07 GMT -5
LOL gene, The disputes come in when people of different interpretation disagree on that interpretation. The RCC is based on the Bible and the traditions reinforce the Bible and Jesus teachings. (Are you a standup commedian?) Blessings, Ann Is praying to Mary a Rc tradition? Nope biblical....the bible says that we should others to pray for us and we should pray for others. One problem here, Mary is dead. You've avoided the question i've asked several times concerning Mary's status in heaven since you bel;ieve she's there. Did she become like God and can hear and understand millions of prayers at once? [/color] Didn't Jesus say to pray to the Father in His name? He sure did.....as we do. Didn't Jesus say, "call no man Father"? Why didn't you just answer the question instead of giving the typical Rc spin?
I typed capital "F" and you respond with lower case "f". Isn't capital F used by "priests" and your popes? Isn't there the spiritual meaning attached that Jesus said not to use?
I stipulate that the bible uses "father" in lower case. [/color] Don't you call "priests" "Father"? Yep, sure do...see above. It's not in the same sense. [/color] Isn't the pope called "The Holy Father"? See above. You've got to better than this. You know as well as I that the popes have made statements like "God on Earth", "hold the place of God Almighty" etc. when speaking of themselves and these statements have never been recanted. [/color] Doesn't the bible forbid contacting the dead? Yes, that is why we do not...plus I do not know how to do that. You attempt it everytime you pray to Mary or anyone the Rcc calls "saints". [/color] Actually if you want to be technical (as you susually do) it forbids necromancy: purpose of conjuring up the dead to reveal the future. (according to the Webster Dictionary. That's exactly what the apparitions of Mary do. "Mary" appears every day to people giving her "wisdom" to those who believe they are dealing with her. [/color] Didn't Mary, Peter, Paul and John all die? yep. Yet, when you pray to them you believe they aren't. [/color]
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Post by genesda on Apr 6, 2004 5:51:16 GMT -5
It is not my fault you don't understand how the words are used here, even when they are explained here. The little "c" refers to the universal Christian church, the big "C" refers to the denomination of Catholic. That is how it is done here and that is how people understand that. You can accept it or not, but don't badger people for doing it the way it is done on this board. Actually, when Rc's speak of the Rcc, they always say "Catholic" meaning Rc. This is seen by the doctrines they connect to the word Catholic. I reject the idea that "Catholic" is being used to describe all denominations when they use the word or when the Rc catechisim uses the word Catholic.. [/color]
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Post by babysis on Apr 6, 2004 7:12:09 GMT -5
It is not my fault you don't understand how the words are used here, even when they are explained here. The little "c" refers to the universal Christian church, the big "C" refers to the denomination of Catholic. That is how it is done here and that is how people understand that. You can accept it or not, but don't badger people for doing it the way it is done on this board. Actually, when Rc's speak of the Rcc, they always say "Catholic" meaning Rc. This is seen by the doctrines they connect to the word Catholic. I reject the idea that "Catholic" is being used to describe all denominations when they use the word or when the Rc catechisim uses the word Catholic.. [/color] [/quote] You are right... the word "Catholic" with the capital C is not used to refer to describe all denominations. It's used to describe the Catholic denomination (Roman or otherwise, not sure of the names of the others) It is the "catholic" (little "c") that is used to describe the Christian church. Now that is the way it is refered to, at least on this board, you can accept that or not, but STOP badgering people about it. You do not need to constantly bring it up. Everyone knows how you feel about it now, you need not "correct" it every time you see it. It is your problem if you don't like it and you need to deal with that on a personal level. It just saddens me that you have to be so nit-picky with other Christians that you lower discussions to semantics. Very sad.
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Post by genesda on Apr 6, 2004 8:17:54 GMT -5
You are right... the word "Catholic" with the capital C is not used to refer to describe all denominations. It's used to describe the Catholic denomination (Roman or otherwise, not sure of the names of the others) It is the "catholic" (little "c") that is used to describe the Christian church. Now that is the way it is refered to, at least on this board, you can accept that or not, but STOP badgering people about it. You do not need to constantly bring it up. Everyone knows how you feel about it now, you need not "correct" it every time you see it. It is your problem if you don't like it and you need to deal with that on a personal level. It just saddens me that you have to be so nit-picky with other Christians that you lower discussions to semantics. Very sad. Shouldn't the same terms apply to my use of the word papist? [/color]
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Post by HomeAtLast on Apr 6, 2004 11:54:58 GMT -5
LOL gene, The disputes come in when people of different interpretation disagree on that interpretation. The RCC is based on the Bible and the traditions reinforce the Bible and Jesus teachings. (Are you a standup commedian?) Blessings, Ann Is praying to Mary a Rc tradition? Nope biblical....the bible says that we should others to pray for us and we should pray for others. One problem here, Mary is dead. You've avoided the question i've asked several times concerning Mary's status in heaven since you bel;ieve she's there. Did she become like God and can hear and understand millions of prayers at once? [/color] Didn't Jesus say to pray to the Father in His name? He sure did.....as we do. Didn't Jesus say, "call no man Father"? Why didn't you just answer the question instead of giving the typical Rc spin?
I typed capital "F" and you respond with lower case "f". Isn't capital F used by "priests" and your popes? Isn't there the spiritual meaning attached that Jesus said not to use?
I stipulate that the bible uses "father" in lower case. [/color] Don't you call "priests" "Father"? Yep, sure do...see above. It's not in the same sense. [/color] Isn't the pope called "The Holy Father"? See above. You've got to better than this. You know as well as I that the popes have made statements like "God on Earth", "hold the place of God Almighty" etc. when speaking of themselves and these statements have never been recanted. [/color] Doesn't the bible forbid contacting the dead? Yes, that is why we do not...plus I do not know how to do that. You attempt it everytime you pray to Mary or anyone the Rcc calls "saints". [/color] Actually if you want to be technical (as you susually do) it forbids necromancy: purpose of conjuring up the dead to reveal the future. (according to the Webster Dictionary. That's exactly what the apparitions of Mary do. "Mary" appears every day to people giving her "wisdom" to those who believe they are dealing with her. [/color] Didn't Mary, Peter, Paul and John all die? yep. Yet, when you pray to them you believe they aren't. [/color] [/quote] I have not avoided any questions. I thought we were discussing what the RCC believes. I can not see into heaven. But, I do believe that Mary is there with Her Son. Mary and the saints bodies have died, not their souls. I am totally baffled on your belief that souls die with the body. Jesus came to give us eternal life....I do not think that that would mean they die with the body and then are recreated. That makes no sense to me. People that Mary appears to are not asking her to appear and tell us what the future holds. They did nothing to make her appear. The children at Fatima were in a field being children. The prayer in my signature is from Fatima taught to the children by the angel that appeared before Our Lady did. The messages of Fatima do not go against the teachings of Jesus or the RCC would not okay them. They are not saying that we are to believe them, only that they do not go against God's teachings and we can make up our own minds about them. Blessings, ann
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Post by Nicodemus on Apr 6, 2004 12:10:11 GMT -5
I have not avoided any questions. I thought we were discussing what the RCC believes. I can not see into heaven. But, I do believe that Mary is there with Her Son. Mary and the saints bodies have died, not their souls. I am totally baffled on your belief that souls die with the body. Jesus came to give us eternal life....I do not think that that would mean they die with the body and then are recreated. That makes no sense to me. People that Mary appears to are not asking her to appear and tell us what the future holds. They did nothing to make her appear. The children at Fatima were in a field being children. The prayer in my signature is from Fatima taught to the children by the angel that appeared before Our Lady did. The messages of Fatima do not go against the teachings of Jesus or the RCC would not okay them. They are not saying that we are to believe them, only that they do not go against God's teachings and we can make up our own minds about them. Blessings, ann Only sinners die, Mary died. Therefore, Mary was a sinner.
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Post by HomeAtLast on Apr 6, 2004 12:23:10 GMT -5
Only sinners die, Mary died. Therefore, Mary was a sinner. Jesus died.
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Post by Nicodemus on Apr 6, 2004 12:24:48 GMT -5
He became sin for us. Do you believe that He is still dead?
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Post by HomeAtLast on Apr 6, 2004 12:27:51 GMT -5
He became sin for us. Do you believe that He is still dead? Of course not! I also believe that Mary is in heaven with her son.
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