Mel
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Posts: 8
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Post by Mel on Nov 18, 2003 10:05:19 GMT -5
So many of the posts on this forum stem from disagreements on what the Bible means.
And according to one poll most people do believe that it was inspired by God but written by humans.
Yet certain individuals seem to think that the Bible MUST be approached as the beginning and end detailed description and instruction on anything that could possible matter. The nature of the soul, Sabbath, creation, church, so many controversial issues in which people point to the Bible for the justification of their beliefs. Of course, this is not initially unreasonable since the Bible, both OT and NT, is the foundation of the faith and moral life of most of us.
Yet something seems very wrong here. The Bible is a collection over many centuries of many different kinds of literary genres: poetry, history, narrative, proverb, song, etc written for the purpose of admonishment, inspiration, and encouragement. Most importantly, it is one culture's response to their encounter with God. I notice a tendency here to make it THE definitive, exclusive, verbatim, technical manual God handed to us directly to be lived to the letter.
It seems a paradox to me since Jesus himself was far from this approach to the scripture of his day. My concern is that the faith and spiritual well being of some people is totally dependent upon "their" understanding and approach to the Bible and so they must defend "their" approach tooth and nail lest their whole worldview be turned upside down. Anything outside their way of seeing it is completely out of the question and unthinkable.
If that works for you, if that's what you need for now, fine. But others may not be as constrained so as to feel obligated in reshaping the known universe to precritical Biblical understandings. It is clear that God’s ways are indeed above our ways and God’s thoughts far above our thought. God thinks outside the box, as it were, and is capable of great surprises. The truth of God’s reality and creation is far from our grasp yet the essential message and direction is quite clear. In fact all to painfully clear. God is love and we are required to love. It is so simply yet so difficult. No wonder we search for excuses not to love and even couch those excuses in religious language.
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Post by Himmel on Nov 18, 2003 15:45:07 GMT -5
Amen Mel! All too often we are so hung up on our own interprations that we forget it's about proclaiming the good news and leading a good Christian life. No two Christians are going to agree on every detail, but we all must remember the two greatest commandments, "love God with our whole heart and to love our neighbor as ourselves". Remember the heart of the law is mercy. God bless.
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Post by christianmom on Nov 18, 2003 21:48:25 GMT -5
Amen Mel! All too often we are so hung up on our own interprations that we forget it's about proclaiming the good news and leading a good Christian life. No two Christians are going to agree on every detail, but we all must remember the two greatest commandments, "love God with our whole heart and to love our neighbor as ourselves". Remember the heart of the law is mercy. God bless. AMEN, AMEN, AMEN!!In Christ,
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Post by Cohdra on Nov 19, 2003 1:56:09 GMT -5
Very good thread you started, Mel. I think the truth is, many Christians maintain that the Holy Bible contains everything a Christian needs to know, and every detail for living and belief is spelled out perfectly. I have to disagree. The areas that cause the largest divisions among Christians are not clearly spelled out, or there would not be so much contention. Vague pkmtyolpages are held by some to be "clearly spelled out" if it supports their own position; Other very clear verses are twisted and over-interpreted to deny another Christian's interpretation.
God bless
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Post by christianmom on Nov 19, 2003 1:58:34 GMT -5
Very good thread you started, Mel. I think the truth is, many Christians maintain that the Holy Bible contains everything a Christian needs to know, and every detail for living and belief is spelled out perfectly. I have to disagree. The areas that cause the largest divisions among Christians are not clearly spelled out, or there would not be so much contention. Vague pkmtyolpages are held by some to be "clearly spelled out" if it supports their own position; Other very clear verses are twisted and over-interpreted to deny another Christian's interpretation. God bless Very nicely put Cohdra! Blessings, In Christ,
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Post by Cohdra on Nov 19, 2003 2:07:18 GMT -5
Very nicely put Cohdra! Blessings, In Christ, Tyvm. christianmom
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Post by LauraJean on Nov 19, 2003 12:43:25 GMT -5
Very good thread you started, Mel. I think the truth is, many Christians maintain that the Holy Bible contains everything a Christian needs to know, and every detail for living and belief is spelled out perfectly. IM (ntb) HO, the Bible DOES tell us everything we need to know for Salvation[/u]. Are there aspects to it that are unclear or confusing regarding our life on Earth? Yes. But that does not diminish it's importance as a guide to Heaven, right? And this is why there are debates. The path to Heaven is narrow, but simple. (LOL, the path to Hell is simple to, eh?) But so many people get hung up on the instructions regarding our life on Earth (the Law) they forget the saving Gospel and its simplicity. Good thread, Mel, and timely!! Blessings, LJ
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Post by Pietro on Nov 20, 2003 7:46:58 GMT -5
IM (ntb) HO, the Bible DOES tell us everything we need to know for Salvation[/u]. Are there aspects to it that are unclear or confusing regarding our life on Earth? Yes. But that does not diminish it's importance as a guide to Heaven, right? LJ[/quote] The Bible does contain all we need for salvation, God's complete message in Christ. But that is a minimalist view. There is more going on above and beyond the minimal need of salvation.
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Mel
New Member
Posts: 8
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Post by Mel on Nov 21, 2003 11:03:51 GMT -5
I didn't think I'd get this much positive feedback. Shall I get back up on my soapbox until someone shoves me off?
Ecclesiastes repeatedly says things like, "I have seen all the works that are done under the sun; and behold, all is vanity and vexation of spirit. (1:14) For in much wisdom is much grief; and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow" (1:18)
Does that mean the Word of God tells us not to seek wisdom and knowledge or to try to accomplish anything on this earth? Of course not but one could make that argument based on this book. Fortunately we seem to have an intuitive sense that God is saying something more than the mere letters spell out.
And again,
we don't hear much argument over the Song of Solomon, do we? “By night on my bed I sought him whom my soul loveth; I sought him, but found him not”. (3:1)
This wonderful allegory of the soul and its yearning for God gives us yet another literary form to speak to our hearts more than to our minds. The Bible is full of many different forms, stories, and accounts. We bring to the Bible our own beliefs and desires. We all do that and we read them in there. But what bothers me is when people enshrine their beliefs and make slanderous judgments on others who do not share those beliefs. And they think their faith is strong. Some people have extreme difficulty simply trusting in God’s mystery. That is real faith. Not faith in one’s belief. Know what I mean? Faith is not clinging to one’s particular interpretation of scripture. Faith, is trusting in the goodness and love of a mystery who is always with us and for us. Yet we all are entitled to beliefs. We just need to respect those of others and admit that our own could be in need of revision.
I Think whole Left behind business (and I do mean business) has little to do with faith in God. It has more to do with faith in a particular approach to scripture. And the arguments over soul sleep or immortal soulism also have little to do with simple trusting in God or reverencing the Bible. Rather, they turn to Holy Scripture with a predetermined agenda and exploit this beautiful gift to satisfy their own need to be right, to be certain. I believe that the more vehemently one argues, the less secure that person is in their own faith. They are threatened.
Don’t tell me what the Bible means. Tell me how it moves you and inspires you to be a better person.
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Post by Archangelwolf on Nov 24, 2003 2:38:49 GMT -5
Interesting Ecclesiastical pkmtyolpage. I believe it is very true. The more wisdom we recieve, the more sorrow we feel.
For example, I used to have the idea that children and adults were two different types of human beings. Now, I realize that they are one and the same. Have adults together in a cpkmtyollroom setting, and they resemble many of the same qualities that a room full of children have in a cpkmtyollroom. It is very apalling sometimes.
Also, there is the obvious fallen nature of humanity. When left to our own thoughts and vices, even the most altruistic personality shows its flaws.
It is sad to say, but without the guidance of the Holy Spirit of God in all things, we would all literally lead ourselves and each other straight into Hell.
However, one question remains about today's Christians. If Christians believe that the Holy Spirit inspired men and women to WRITE scripture, then why is it so hard for them to believe that the Holy Spirit must inspire men and women to INTERPRET scripture? Our own experiences, education, cultures, or whatever are useless. Scripture was written from God; who is beyond all human comprehension. We must understand that scripture should only be interpretted after prayer, and devoted meditation towards the Great Author of the Book.
Later,
Arch.
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Post by Pietro on Nov 24, 2003 6:50:09 GMT -5
Our own experiences, education, cultures, or whatever are useless. Scripture was written from God; who is beyond all human comprehension. We must understand that scripture should only be interpretted after prayer, and devoted meditation towards the Great Author of the Book. Later, Arch. But doesn't God also use experiences, education, cultures and whatever else to speak to us?.
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Post by Cohdra on Dec 3, 2003 4:42:22 GMT -5
But doesn't God also use experiences, education, cultures and whatever else to speak to us?. We had a similiar debate on another thread. I agree that God can reach people in many ways; He knows no limits. There have been many souls saved w/o access to the Bible. God bless
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Post by Cohdra on Dec 20, 2003 18:06:09 GMT -5
This is a very good topic, and fits in closely with the "Bibliolotry" thread. It's usually quite controversial. Does anyone else have any comments to add?
God bless
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Post by Pietro on Feb 3, 2004 16:32:11 GMT -5
This is a very good topic, and fits in closely with the "Bibliolotry" thread. It's usually quite controversial. Does anyone else have any comments to add? God bless Sorry but it really gets me ticked off when people insist on a literal and legalistic interpretation of the Bible. It is a wonderful piece of literature filled with God's spirit. It is God's Word to us. But, it also comes to us through one culture's experience of God, the Jewish culture. It is their story told from their perspective by their people. Even the New Testament. It has poetry, history, legal code, exhortation, allegory, and yes, it also has myth. Failure to distinguish these different genres is just plain simplistic and lazy minded. I understand that some people don't have the time or wherewithall to go beyond a literal interpretation of the whole thing, fine. Just don't force it on me as a requirement for salvation, or Christianity or whatever. God's Word is not limited to or completely contained in the Bible.
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Post by genesda on Feb 4, 2004 6:14:34 GMT -5
IM (ntb) HO, the Bible DOES tell us everything we need to know for Salvation[/u]. Are there aspects to it that are unclear or confusing regarding our life on Earth? Yes. But that does not diminish it's importance as a guide to Heaven, right? And this is why there are debates. The path to Heaven is narrow, but simple. (LOL, the path to Hell is simple to, eh?) But so many people get hung up on the instructions regarding our life on Earth (the Law) they forget the saving Gospel and its simplicity. Good thread, Mel, and timely!! Blessings, LJ[/quote] I agree with you LJ. Salvation is simple. Repent, ask God to forgive our sin, turn from sin and sin no more. LOL, now, how is this accomplished? How is sin identified? When pkmtyolw the last time you sinned and how did you know you sinned? Could it be ( in the manner of 'church lady')
..............the law!!!! [/color]
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