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Post by Protestant on Jul 26, 2003 17:36:08 GMT -5
The protestants left the church when they discovered that the office of Pope is the antichrist. most of them were forced out and persecuted. Why shouldnt they have left. The church of Rome is not the head of the church on earth.
No Satan gave us the Pope. When he dies another antichrist will replace him. John Paul II is a mary worshipper and an Idolator.
There is no earthly priesthood. Jesus is the High Priest in the heavenly temple. The roman priesthood is a counterfeit of the ministry of Jesus.
Paul makes it clear that if a man desires to be a bishop he is to be the husband of one wife. The apostle Peter was married. The roman celibacy thing for bishops is wrong.
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Post by AmericanBetty on Jul 26, 2003 20:09:33 GMT -5
I have been to every church on the hill where I grew up. Presby, Methodist and Baptist and have Never heard that the reason the Protestant faith was started was because they believed the pope was the AC. I have even had religious debate with my wonderful Methodist friend who studied the Bible very hard and SHE never mentioned this when I questioned why she believed the way she did.
I don't think that even most Protestants think the pope is evil. He of course is not. He has never waivered on telling us the right and wrong moralities and how we should be strong in our faith.Which leads me to the next point, I have been raised Catholic all my life and have NEVER worshiped Mary. I also know what prayers the pope has said and he doesn't worship her either. That is a misconception that if you want to hold onto, go right ahead. But I know the difference. I liken my feelings about Mary to those of my own mother. I would like to think that Jesus' mom means more to the world than my own! I wanted to find someplace to put the idol worshipping thing in since I read about evil inhabitting objects in a possession topic so here goes... If I read that Protestants can think that evil is in an object why can't the Lord be present in one. Angels can guard us in more ways than demons can attack us!
If there is no earthly preisthood I am assuming that you don't go to church and let a minister lead you to Jesus. After all he would be filling that role,wouldn't he?? I want to see my son serve the Lord and it would be the greatest honor for me to see Jesus and show him how much he meant to me!
Your last post about bishops marrying one woman seems that it can go 2 ways. I read it to say that you can't have more than ONE wife. Not that you are required to have one. I think interpretation is everything.
If you really believe these things you wrote I am assuming that you are not part of a mainstream Protestant faith. That being the case I would like to point out again that all these denominations are weaking the Body of Christ and allowing evil into our Christian faith!
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Post by Cohdra on Jul 26, 2003 20:39:06 GMT -5
Deborah4God wrote: Yes I agee Peter was a humble man, and was crucified UPSIDE DOWN. But nevertheless no where in scripture did Jesus tell us to do as Peter did, or to follow the example of Peter- seeing Peter did deny Jesus 3 times . but to Follow Him { Jesus} over any man- So why on earth would the anyone follow any example of Peter or anyone else mention in the bible other then Jesus Christ considering Peter did disown Jesus three times- and yes lied about knowing JesusThe scripture says, "Those that receive you, receive me; Those that reject you, reject me" We were told to follow the apostles as examples. Men appointed by Christ himself could never be unworthy examples. To question them or their integrity is to question Christ and his integrity. Questioning the authority and worthiness of the apostles would present another problem. You would have to reject all the gospels, acts, and letters as well. There is absolutely no doubt that Christ appointed the apostles as leaders, teachers, and examples. "As my Father sent me, so I send you...." As for Peter denying Christ 3 times; I do believe that sin was forgiven by Christ; Any sin forgiven by God, no longer exists. And who are we to judge one of Christ's apostles? God bless
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Post by RealistState on Jul 26, 2003 22:12:57 GMT -5
Hello Protestant... The protestants left the church when they discovered that the office of Pope is the antichrist. Someone should tell Martin Luther about this. Wouldn't be more accurate to say that they left of their own free will? I don't think they were forced. And let's not forget the "persecution" is a two edge sword wielded quite well by both parties. Actually you are quite correct, Jesus has always been it's head. Ahhh...the old "it's the office, not the person" that that make the AC. Nothing like hedging your "bets". So, I hope your not saying thet Jesus is satan when He gave Peter the "Keys to the Kingdom" Need I remind you of the consequence of "bearing false witness"? Then what, pray tell, were His Apostles if not Jesus's first priests. Matter of opinion. I believe Paul said for bishops to be celibate. By extension, wouldn't a celibate person be more able to not be of this world and woship God without distration? May the Peace of the Lord be with you.
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Post by michaeldark on Jul 26, 2003 22:53:37 GMT -5
Lol,I'm sorry guys,but for the sake of avoiding calling certain protestants certain unflattering words,which I know would happen if I dragged myself into this,I think I'll opt for caution and just back out.
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Post by CatholicChristian on Jul 26, 2003 23:17:57 GMT -5
Lol,I'm sorry guys,but for the sake of avoiding calling certain protestants certain unflattering words,which I know would happen if I dragged myself into this,I think I'll opt for caution and just back out. Mike, I agree with you in that I will stay out of this conversation. I quoted a lot of what the pope preaches but those who want to spout hatred towards him chose to ingore that post. In fact, when I ask specific questions that they cannot answer, they just choose to ignore the post - even when sent in private messages. I believe they don't answer because they can't, otherwise it would be shown that what they answer would contradict what they say. They would rather continue to believe what they want and spew "anti-pope" hatred instead of seeing what he has done for the church of Christ - the Universal Church. What AmericanBetty, Cohdra, and RealistState have stated is so true, but those that choose to be blinded choose that option. I could continue to point out the popes life towards servitude to our Lord but they will only see hatred. Enough said from me on this topic. God Bless! CC
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Post by Protestant on Jul 27, 2003 3:00:18 GMT -5
I have always taught that the office of Pope is the antichrist and i see no reason to change that. Jesus gave the keys to all the apostles not just Peter.
really. is that what im doing?
Mary worshipping blasphemer Pope John Paul 2 "Fatima, 12 May 2000: John Paul II praying to Our Lady of Fatima". "O Mary, my Mother, I offer you my soul, my mind, and my heart. Make of me God's instrument. Give me a penetrating mind to discover, firm to judge, open to understand, free to serve the truth; an honest mind in telling what it sees rather than what it wants to see; a tolerant mind which does not dictate to other people, but which explain what it sees clearly; a mind infused by the light and the truth of your Son Jesus, patient in faith, while waiting for the vision of eternal life. Amen." (Translated and adapted from Fernand Lelotte, S.J., Rabboni, Consignes et prieres pour mieux servir (Paris, Casterman, 1958).
They were His apostles. Priests offer sacrifice. The blasphemy of the pkmtyolm is a counterfeit sacrifice. The priesthood is in heaven in the Heavenly sanctuary. The Roman priesthood is a satanic counterfeit . Its designed to take peoples mind off the service in heaven and to focus on the counterfeit here on earth.
Paul actually said this.
1 Timothy 3:1-2 This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop, he desires a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife,
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Post by RealistState on Jul 27, 2003 6:17:48 GMT -5
I have always taught that the office of Pope is the antichrist and i see no reason to change that. Jesus gave the keys to all the apostles not just Peter. Now is this really yours, or a reiteration of what Ellen White taught. In any event, let's deal with these one at a time. Let's see what Our Lord said regarding the Keys of the Kingdom: Matthew 16:13-1913 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? 14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. 15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. This does not appear to be an ambiguous statement by Our Lord. He was addressing Peter, not the Apostles.
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Post by RealistState on Jul 27, 2003 6:37:42 GMT -5
Mary worshipping blasphemer Pope John Paul 2 "Fatima, 12 May 2000: John Paul II praying to Our Lady of Fatima". "O Mary, my Mother, I offer you my soul, my mind, and my heart. I assume the emphasis on this first line "proves" to you that you are not bearing "false witness" in calling Pope John Paul II a blasphemer. I am in the process of searching the Vatican web site to see the actual verbage and context of the prayer he used, but perhaps what we really need is what constitutes "blasphemy". It would appear that the use of any intercessor would constitute blasphemy to you. Is this a correct assumption?
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Post by genesda on Jul 27, 2003 8:56:00 GMT -5
Quote:And to give my youngest son the calling to be a priest!!
There is no earthly priesthood. Jesus is the High Priest in the heavenly temple. The roman priesthood is a counterfeit of the ministry of Jesus.
The ONLY priesthood ordained by God was the Levitical priesthood. That one came to an end with the sacrifice of Jesus. There was NEVER another God ordained priesthood. All others are false.
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Post by genesda on Jul 27, 2003 8:59:27 GMT -5
I have been to every church on the hill where I grew up. Presby, Methodist and Baptist and have Never heard that the reason the Protestant faith was started was because they believed the pope was the AC. I have even had religious debate with my wonderful Methodist friend who studied the Bible very hard and SHE never mentioned this when I questioned why she believed the way she did. I don't think that even most Protestants think the pope is evil. He of course is not. Your friend Betty probably thinks Sunday is a new Sabbath too, so I wouldn't place too much faith in what she tells you. The pope is the antichrist of the bible and he worships MARY. That is idolatry.[/color]
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Post by genesda on Jul 27, 2003 9:03:26 GMT -5
AmericanBetty
If there is no earthly preisthood I am assuming that you don't go to church and let a minister lead you to Jesus. After all he would be filling that role,wouldn't he??
No, i't not the same. The Roman priesthood claims to be a mediating priesthood that people must go to for forgivness. You pope even said that no one can go directly to God for forgivness.
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Post by Cohdra on Jul 27, 2003 11:52:32 GMT -5
blasphemy /blsfmi/ n. [C;U] -mies saying disrespectful things about God, religion, or anything sacred: Long ago, people were killed for blasphemy. -adv. blasphemously; -v. [T] blaspheme /blsfim, blsfim/; -adj. blasphemous.
From Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) :
Blasphemy \Blas"phe*my\, n. [L. blasphemia, Gr. ?: cf. OF. blasphemie.] 1. An indignity offered to God in words, writing, or signs; impiously irreverent words or signs addressed to, or used in reference to, God; speaking evil of God; also, the act of claiming the attributes or prerogatives of deity. Note: When used generally in statutes or at common law, blasphemy is the use of irreverent words or signs in reference to the Supreme Being in such a way as to produce scandal or provoke violence. 2. Figuratively, of things held in high honor: Calumny; abuse; vilification. Punished for his blasphemy against learning. --Bacon.
From WordNet (r) 1.7 :
blasphemy n 1: blasphemous language (expressing disrespect for God or for something sacred) 2: blasphemous behavior [syn: profanation, desecration, sacrilege]
From Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary :
Blasphemy In the sense of speaking evil of God this word is found in Ps. 74:18; Isa. 52:5; Rom. 2:24; Rev. 13:1, 6; 16:9, 11, 21. It denotes also any kind of calumny, or evil-speaking, or abuse (1 Kings 21:10; Acts 13:45; 18:6, etc.). Our Lord was accused of blasphemy when he claimed to be the Son of God (Matt. 26:65; comp. Matt. 9:3; Mark 2:7). They who deny his Messiahship blaspheme Jesus (Luke 22:65; John 10:36). Blasphemy against the Holy Ghost (Matt. 12:31, 32; Mark 3:28, 29; Luke 12:10) is regarded by some as a continued and obstinate rejection of the gospel, and hence is an unpardonable sin, simply because as long as a sinner remains in unbelief he voluntarily excludes himself from pardon. Others regard the expression as designating the sin of attributing to the power of Satan those miracles which Christ performed, or generally those works which are the result of the Spirit's agency.
God bless
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Post by AmericanBetty on Jul 27, 2003 15:34:11 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity what day do you go to church? I haven't found that chruch yet that celebrates on any other day but Sunday.... WHOOPS! I am wrong, the Catholic church does.
If you feel so strongly that you shouldn't be there on a Sunday we'll welcome you Saturday!! We won't hold it against you when you don't worship our statues either,of course you won't see the devil popping out or talked about in a good way either. If you follow what is said you might be surprised that we worship Jesus!!
I have talked, debated and visited other churches so that I know what is happening in other faiths. I don't want to hear things word of mouth. I say go to the source and FYI I have seen bad priests and I have met ministers who cheat on their wives. So when you visit these churches keep an open mind that you might have picked a bad apple. My Methodist hub and son don't have the faith I do and yet the minister from Hub's church is a very nice man, not very Godly but I do like him. My priest now is a Godly man who allows no excuses for not following God's law!! Forgiveness is his rule but he will tell you when you are messing up! But I insist that I have seen things both ways!! Good and bad in both faiths. I had a priest tell my hub that he would much rather my hub get to Heaven being a good Methodist than miss it by being a bad Catholic!! Words to live by!!!
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Post by Protestant on Jul 27, 2003 20:07:37 GMT -5
Ask him about the 4th commandment and why your church doesn observe the sabbath.
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