|
Post by LauraJean on Dec 15, 2004 11:24:02 GMT -5
on Today at 09:22:32, LauraJean wrote: Is it your understanding that there is one World Economic/Financial System? This will come as an almighty shock to economists! Socialists will be quite surprised to learn that their system 'goes together' with capitalism --and vice-versa. Who knew! On the other hand, this will come as great news to the emerging third world economies. What a relief! And the folks who have most of their assets tied up in the Nikkei market will be much rpkmtyoleured that their investments 'go together' with the burgeoning Dow. LJ
|
|
|
Post by LauraJean on Dec 15, 2004 14:54:56 GMT -5
What you have is a de-humanizing "dog eat dog", Darwinian "survival of the fittest" mentality called "capitalism", which is all about the worship of Mammon. Greed and self-interest are the name of the game, and such a system will inevitably destroy itself. The rich are getting recher and the poor [the majority of consumers] are getting poorer. The goals are ever greater efficiency, and ever higher profits for corporate big business, while at the same time reducing the workforce, and paying the top bosses and directors ever more ridiculously high rewards for doing so. I'm sick of all the times that I have read in the press about the fat cats here in England being rewarded for this, and for business failure too. Workers of the World unite?
|
|
|
Post by AlphaOmega on Dec 16, 2004 6:58:47 GMT -5
This is demonstrably untrue. LJ It is true when the debt that they have been encouraged to get into by the banks and the credit card companies is taken into account. Debts have to be paid, which is a problem when, for example, in Britain personal debts are equivalent to the estimated annual national wealth generated by our economy of £1,000,000,000,000. Remember, we only have a population of around fifty million people. Let's do some simple sums. Let's suppose that 60% of the population shares this debt. So we subtract the approximate consumer debt from the approximate wealth Britain generates in a year: national wealth: £1,000,000,000,000 consumer debt: £1,000,000,000,000 ______________________________ 0 Where's all the money gone? Now we divide the consumer debt by 60% of the population: consumer debt: £1,000,000,000,000 pop. in debt (60%): 30,000,000 _______________________________ per head of pop: £33,333 In good economic times, debt is manageable. In bad economic times, it can be a nightmare. And let's not forget that debts are constantly added to with interest. Credit card companies are out to get as many people in debt as possible. You may say that is "the nature of the beast". But the credit companies here have even been trying to sell their financial products to the unemployed through the post. I suspect that if enough debt is generated nationally, it could sink the economy and undermine the nation's sovereignty. Scaremongering? Who knows. Question: Is it acceptable for Christians to be in debt? Christian.
|
|
|
Post by AlphaOmega on Dec 16, 2004 7:42:21 GMT -5
Some info' about globalization: FACTS ABOUT... (PDF) ... asdf. Globalization. FACTS ABOUT... international levels, to be more responsive to con- cerns about globalization and sustainable development. ... johannesburgsummit.org/html/media_info/.../wssd8_globalization.pdf - 215k - View as html - More from this site The American Assembler - The Facts About Globalization Globalization. Main. Newsblog. Media. 9/11. Peak Oil. Economy. The Great Experiment: The Facts About Globalization. The Free Market God ... Yet despite these facts, proponents of Globalization, like members of a cult, ignore evidence for ideology ... americapkmtyolnembler.com/issues/globalization - 22k - Cached - More from this site New facts on globalization, poverty and income distribution Department of Policy and Business Practices. Issues Paper. New facts on globalization, poverty and income distribution. Corporate Economists Advisory Group, 15 January 2003 ... In the debate over globalization, it is often claimed that the gap between rich and poor has kept ... iccwbo.org/home/.../statements/2003/new_facts_on_globalization.asp - 18k - Cached - More from this site World Factbook: Germany introduction to the government, economy, transportation, and people of Germany. From CIA. Category: Germany > Country Guides www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/gm.html - 114k - Cached - More from this site Globalization FAQ: Facts and Myths about the Global Economy This site presents basic facts and data about international trade and the global economy; answers frequently asked questions; and debunks popular myths and fallacies. ... make comprehensible to everybody. Facts & Myths about Globalization (in progress) ... www.geocities.com/WallStreet/Exchange/7410/GlobalizationFAQ.html - 8k - Cached - More from this site Globalization Facts and Figures Policy Discussion Papers in full text. 2004 2003 2002 2001 2000 1999 All. Globalization Facts and Figures. Author/Editor: pkmtyolmon, Paul R. ... Subject(s): Globalization | Trade liberalization ... www.imf.org/external/pubs/cat/longres.cfm?sk=15469.0 - 17k - Cached - More from this site Facts and Figures on Globalization (PDF) (updated by DE, 4. th. August 2002) Facts and Figures on Globalization. Trade, GDP, FDI, development aid, and wealth. Trade has expanded rapidly in recent decades, with the value of manufacturing exports. worldwide more than tripling in 1980-2000. www.ilo.org/public/english/wcsdg/globali/facts.pdf - 19k - View as html - More from this site Women's Learning Partnership - Globalization WLP's goal is to empower women and girls in Africa, Asia, and the Middle East through leadership training and capacity building. WLP is an international non-governmental organization. www.learningpartnership.org/facts/global.phtml - 23k - Cached - More from this site International Affairs - Globalization Facts International Affairs - Globalization Facts ... www.nsu.newschool.edu/internationalaffairs/05a_global.htm - 10k - Cached - More from this site Speech: Globalization Facts and Consequences Speeches, Testimony, Papers. Globalization Facts and Consequences. Gary Clyde Hufbauer. Institute for International Economics. Debate Sponsored by Williams College. October 12, 2000. Revised March 13, 2001. The Long View. ... Is this the curse of globalization? www.j-bradford-delong.net ... John Helliwell, "Globalization: Myths, Facts, and Consequences", Benefactors Lecture, C.D ... www.iie.com/publications/papers/hufbauer1000.htm - 27k - Cached - More from this site Christian.
|
|
|
Post by AlphaOmega on Dec 16, 2004 7:45:35 GMT -5
Workers of the World unite? Yep!
|
|
|
Post by LauraJean on Dec 16, 2004 8:33:02 GMT -5
What information in your links did you find most compelling? Was it the description of Germany from the CIA web-site? Personally, I didn't find it too helpful in furthering your point.
Was it the site that described the advances in the world that have resulted from Globalization? It seems to me that supports my side of the argument more than yours.
Or was it the sites that whined that not everyone was rich?
Did you even look at the sites before you posted them here?
Andy, you've demonstrated what I had suspected. You are not as conversant on this topic as I'd hoped. For example, you said there was one world economic system and then provided links about Globalization. There isn't one world 'economic system.' The economies of various nations are connected in that one can affect another, but that doesn't mean there is one system that governs everything. (e.g., a 'One World Economic System) Do you understand the distinction?
But forging ahead...
Did any of the web-sites you provided discuss the reasons that countries with great natural resources exist in third-world conditions? The answer is fairly simple; one need only look at the legacy of Robert Mugabe to understand the issues. Capitalism ISN'T the problem. Totalitarian, Marxist regimes are.
Capitalism works every time it's allowed to operate. Socialism fails every time it's tried.
LJ
|
|
|
Post by LauraJean on Dec 16, 2004 8:37:54 GMT -5
It is true when the debt that they have been encouraged to get into by the banks and the credit card companies is taken into account. What does self-incurred debt have to do with your original premise? (Reminder --your original premise was that there are fewer rich more poor people because the Free Market system is inherently flawed.) Are you a proponent of what I like to call the "nanny state" where people are 'protected' from being poor by the government? You should know that those same people are also 'protected' from being rich. Taking money from people who have earned it and giving it to people who haven't doesn't make anyone rich, it makes everyone poor. I eagerly await your reply. LJ
|
|
|
Post by LauraJean on Dec 16, 2004 8:39:51 GMT -5
P.S., If you'd like to take one or two of your favorite point from any of the web-sites you listed and offer it up for discussion, I'm happy to participate.
LJ
|
|
|
Post by AlphaOmega on Dec 16, 2004 8:58:39 GMT -5
What information in your links did you find most compelling? Was it the description of Germany from the CIA web-site? Personally, I didn't find it too helpful in furthering your point. Was it the site that described the advances in the world that have resulted from Globalization? It seems to me that supports my side of the argument more than yours. Or was it the sites that whined that not everyone was rich? Did you even look at the sites before you posted them here? Andy, you've demonstrated what I had suspected. You are not as conversant on this topic as I'd hoped. For example, you said there was one world economic system and then provided links about Globalization. There isn't one world 'economic system.' The economies of various nations are connected in that one can affect another, but that doesn't mean there is one system that governs everything. (e.g., a 'One World Economic System) Do you understand the distinction? But forging ahead... Did any of the web-sites you provided discuss the reasons that countries with great natural resources exist in third-world conditions? The answer is fairly simple; one need only look at the legacy of Robert Mugabe to understand the issues. Capitalism ISN'T the problem. Totalitarian, Marxist regimes are. Capitalism works every time it's allowed to operate. Socialism fails every time it's tried. LJ I gave the sites as an opportunity for people to look at the subject of globalization and to make up their own minds about it. Any objections to that? As for Robert Mugabe, he's a thoroughly evil, ignorant, and arrogant man. He has almost single-handedly destroyed Zimbabwe. But why did he hate the white farmers? And capitalism will cease to work eventually, as it's unsustainable and is based on greed and self-interest which will one day be destroyed. The available raw materials on which the global economy relies will eventually be exhausted. Oil and gas are beginning to run out, and the rain forests are being destroyed. My opinion of course, but I've heard it said in the media that we consume way too much compared to the third world, and the scientific world is almost universally united in saying that we are heating up the planet and that the increase in air pollution of recent decades is causing asthma to increase amongst the young. Not a healthy state of affairs. Christian.
|
|
|
Post by AlphaOmega on Dec 16, 2004 9:21:36 GMT -5
What does self-incurred debt have to do with your original premise? The major financial institutions of the World are encouraging those personal debts.(Reminder --your original premise was that there are fewer rich more poor people because the Free Market system is inherently flawed.) Are you a proponent of what I like to call the "nanny state" where people are 'protected' from being poor by the government? You should know that those same people are also 'protected' from being rich. Taking money from people who have earned it and giving it to people who haven't doesn't make anyone rich, it makes everyone poor. I'm not a proponent of the "nanny state". I'm not a proponent of corporate big business. I'm not a proponent of the cynical corporate exploitation of workers, especially in the third World in the name of Mammon. I am a proponent of allowing private companies to do what they do best, whilst allowing the state to do what it does best. I am a proponent of the redistribution of wealth. There should be no poverty in this world. And it's worth remembering that rich and poor alike are consumers of goods and services. I'm not rich, but I still have savings. Money is money, whoever saves or spends it.
Christian.
|
|
|
Post by PhilipDC78 on Dec 16, 2004 12:16:13 GMT -5
in the name of Mammon. Andy. [/color] [/quote] Careful Andy, with all this talk of Mammon, we might just start calling you esmhousecall. Next thing you know, you are going to tell us that the shaving cream industry is secretly conspiring to make beards grow faster and thicker with shaving cream, and that the AMA (American medical association) is teamed up with the Illuminati to rule the world. Oh, and that by not drinking soda or eating refined flour, we will be able to completely do away with deoderants, which are the cause of breast cancer.
|
|
|
Post by LauraJean on Dec 16, 2004 13:22:12 GMT -5
Careful Andy, with all this talk of Mammon, we might just start calling you esmhousecall. LOL!! I was thinking the exact same thing. Gosh, sometimes I really miss Mr. Flowers. Blessings, LJ
|
|
|
Post by PhilipDC78 on Dec 16, 2004 13:36:37 GMT -5
LOL!! I was thinking the exact same thing. Gosh, sometimes I really miss Mr. Flowers. Blessings, LJ Ah yeah, that nutjob was always good for a laugh.
|
|
|
Post by Traffic Demon on Dec 16, 2004 21:42:19 GMT -5
Did we ever find out what the esm stood for? Dude was top shelf comedy.
--BDT Ditka
|
|
|
Post by LauraJean on Dec 17, 2004 9:56:16 GMT -5
Did we ever find out what the esm stood for? Dude was top shelf comedy. Believe it or not, I believe it stood for Emergency Medical Service. He really was great for not letting the facts get in the way of a good story, wasn't he! In fact... the more I think about it.... Blessings, LJ
|
|