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Post by LauraJean on Dec 14, 2004 9:23:18 GMT -5
I wonder how the comfortable middle cpkmtyolles and the seriously rich are going to cope when the global economic/financial collapse occurs? Just curious, why do you think a global collapse is a foregone conclusion? Why not? Capitalism works every time it's allowed to operate freely. Have you ever heard the adage "A rising tide lifts all boats"? Not really. It's based on a desire to make money by finding a need and filling that need thus making a profit. In order to fill that need, one must hire good workers. In order to keep good workers and keep them from going to a competitor who is also trying to make a profit, the employer must treat the workers well. In order to make a bigger profit, the product must be better, more desirable or less expensive than that which the competition provides. So what are we left with? 1) An employer who is making money and providing jobs. 2) Employees who are making money. 3) The more money the employees make, the more they have to invest into other profit-making ventures. Those other profit-making ventures then provide more jobs for more employees and more income for the employee investors. 4) Consumers who get a product they want that is better or less expensive --or both-- than what they had previously. The laws of supply and demand are as immutable as the laws of physics. Self-interest isn't the same as greed, and self-interest is a great motivator for innovation and productivity. What about this isn't sustainable? You probably haven't read Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations but surely you have been acquainted with the principles offered therein. In case you want to refresh your memory... www.econlib.org/library/Smith/smWN.html --The principles are timeless. Here ends the economics 101 lesson... Blessings, LJ Grr! Typos!
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Post by AlphaOmega on Dec 14, 2004 10:12:47 GMT -5
Just curious, why do you think a global collapse is a foregone conclusion? Because a system that is based on concentrating ever greater wealth in the hands of a small group of individuals, while spreading poverty amongst the rest of the population will have the effect of destroying the markets for consumer goods. Workers are consumers, and unless their bosses pay them decent wages they will cease to be consumers of those goods.Why not? Capitalism works every time it's allowed to operate freely. Have you ever heard the adage "A rising tide lifts all boats"? So why is your currency, the American dollar, losing so much value in the money markets, and what's happened to your economic recovery?Not really. It's based on a desire to make money by finding a need and filling that need thus making a profit. In order to fill that need, one must hire good workers. In order to keep good workers and keep them from going to a competitor who is also trying to make a profit, the employer must treat the workers well. In order to make a bigger profit, the product must be better, more desirable or less expensive than that which the competition provides. So what are we left with? 1) An employer who is making money and providing jobs. 2) Employees who are making money. 3) The more money the employees make, the more they have to invest into other profit-making ventures. Those other profit-making ventures then provide more jobs for more employees and more income for the employee investors. 4) Consumers who get a product they want that is better or less expensive --or both-- than what they had previously. The laws of supply and demand are as immutable as the laws of physics. This has got nothing to do with physics.Self-interest isn't the same as greed, and self-interest is a great motivator for innovation and productivity. Without self interest, you wouldn't have greed.What about this isn't sustainable? If the present system is sustainable, how do you explain the fact that economies have a nasty habit of going through depressions, and people suffer materially and businesses collapse? Sustainable, for whom?You probably haven't read Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations but surely you have been acquainted with the principles offered therein. In case you want to refresh your memory... www.econlib.org/library/Smith/smWN.html --The principles are timeless. Here ends the economics 101 lesson... Blessings, LJ Grr! Typos!
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Post by heathen76 on Dec 14, 2004 10:55:22 GMT -5
Do you really want to expand your demonstration of ignorance of science into the realm of economics as well?
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Post by AlphaOmega on Dec 14, 2004 11:02:44 GMT -5
Do you really want to expand your demonstration of ignorance of science into the realm of economics as well? The day is coming soon when you'll be eating humble pie, my friend. When my words come true, it will dawn on you how very right I was, and how very wrong you were. Scoffers never listen, until disaster is upon them, by which time it's too late. You wait and see. Christian.
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Post by heathen76 on Dec 14, 2004 11:27:19 GMT -5
The day is coming soon when you'll be eating humble pie, my friend. When my words come true, it will dawn on you how very right I was, and how very wrong you were. Scoffers never listen, until disaster is upon them, by which time it's too late. You wait and see. Christian. So, is this the part now where I get scared, repent, and join your religion?
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Post by AlphaOmega on Dec 14, 2004 11:56:26 GMT -5
So, is this the part now where I get scared, repent, and join your religion? The Christian faith is not a man-made religion. It is God-made, and it's entirely up to you whether or not you repent and give your life to Him. Nobody here is forcing you to. If you don't repent and make Jesus Christ your Lord and Master, you will one day be terrified at the sight of Him. That's a fact. He's returning to receive His Sons and Daughters. Will you join us, or choose to go to Hell instead? It's your choice. Nobody can condemn you to Hell. Only you can do that. Christian.
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Post by heathen76 on Dec 14, 2004 12:17:42 GMT -5
The Christian faith is not a man-made religion. All religions are man-made. Believe as you wish. Only according to your belief structure. Only according to your belief structure. Only according to your belief structure. There is no hell, save that which you create. Only according to your belief structure.
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Post by AlphaOmega on Dec 14, 2004 12:26:49 GMT -5
All religions are man-made. Believe as you wish. It's not so much a matter of believing as knowingOnly according to your belief structure. Only according to your belief structure. Only according to your belief structure. Are you a parrot with a split personality? ;DThere is no hell, save that which you create. You'll find out one day.......Only according to your belief structure. No, only according to what God says through His written Word, the Bible.
Christian.
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Post by LauraJean on Dec 14, 2004 14:08:12 GMT -5
The day is coming soon when you'll be eating humble pie, my friend. When my words come true, it will dawn on you how very right I was, and how very wrong you were. Scoffers never listen, until disaster is upon them, by which time it's too late. You wait and see. Are you talking about this supposed economic collapse you've predicted? Or about Heathen's salvation (e.g., the lack thereof)? Blessings, LJ
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Post by LauraJean on Dec 14, 2004 14:23:43 GMT -5
Because a system that is based on concentrating ever greater wealth in the hands of a small group of individuals, while spreading poverty amongst the rest of the population will have the effect of destroying the markets for consumer goods. Workers are consumers, and unless their bosses pay them decent wages they will cease to be consumers of those goods If you were right about what our economic system is based on, you would be right about the end result. However, your premise is incorrect, as I described later in the post to which you were responding. Our economic recovery is going along quite nicely, thanks for asking. As for the Dollar, I'm happy to discuss the nature of its fluctuating value as soon as I believe you understand basic economics, supply and demand, trade balances, and the like. I'm not currently convinced because, among other reasons, you've confused the term Money Market (which is an investment vehicle and doesn't affect the value of the Dollar) with --I'll assume-- International Currency. Did you not understand my analogy? Again, if you'd like to discuss economic policies, cycles, and the effects of world and local events on economies, I'm happy to do it. I just don't have a whole lot of confidence at this point that you are particularly conversant on this topic. If you are interested in learning, I'm happy to help. Blessings, LJ
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Post by LauraJean on Dec 14, 2004 14:30:14 GMT -5
Workers are consumers, and unless their bosses pay them decent wages they will cease to be consumers of those goods. Hang on a second, I've just re-read this. What do you consider "decent wages"? Have you considered that a decent wage in Bangaladesh is different than a decent wage in Chicago? Supply and Demand, Baby. Live it. Love it. Blessings, LJ
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Post by MorningStar on Dec 14, 2004 19:41:05 GMT -5
LauraJean: Again, if you'd like to discuss economic policies, cycles, and the effects of world and local events on economies, I'm happy to do it.
oh oh oh *raises hands* me please!
drop me an IM, email, etc.....
(no, this isn't scarcasim)
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Post by AlphaOmega on Dec 15, 2004 5:14:35 GMT -5
Are you talking about this supposed economic collapse you've predicted? Or about Heathen's salvation (e.g., the lack thereof)? Blessings, LJ Well, if you can't tell the difference.......
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Post by AlphaOmega on Dec 15, 2004 5:34:44 GMT -5
If you were right about what our economic system is based on, you would be right about the end result. However, your premise is incorrect, as I described later in the post to which you were responding. We'll see.......Our economic recovery is going along quite nicely, thanks for asking. Really? The experts here aren't so sure....... As for the Dollar, I'm happy to discuss the nature of its fluctuating value as soon as I believe you understand basic economics, supply and demand, trade balances, and the like. I'm not currently convinced because, among other reasons, you've confused the term Money Market (which is an investment vehicle and doesn't affect the value of the Dollar) with --I'll assume-- International Currency. Hmm. Well I know that the money markets are to do with investment, and I never said they weren't. Would I be right in saying that global investment can be affected by the exchange rates of the World's currencies? Tell me if I'm wrong.Did you not understand my analogy? Analogy was it? Now that's a word I like. Out in the real World, physics has got nothing to do with economics. It's a totally separate branch of knowledge.Again, if you'd like to discuss economic policies, cycles, and the effects of world and local events on economies, I'm happy to do it. I just don't have a whole lot of confidence at this point that you are particularly conversant on this topic. If you are interested in learning, I'm happy to help. No. I was just sharing a valid opinion. When the global depression really starts to set in, you won't be interested in economics anymore.......
Christian.
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Post by AlphaOmega on Dec 15, 2004 5:44:17 GMT -5
Hang on a second, I've just re-read this. What do you consider "decent wages"? Have you considered that a decent wage in Bangaladesh is different than a decent wage in Chicago? Supply and Demand, Baby. Live it. Love it. Blessings, LJ The poverty wages that the big Western multinational businesses pay their workers in the third world. I believe it's given the fancy name of "globalization". The idea being that the richer get richer, and the poor get poorer. Many of these workers are working for little more than a dollar a day, possibly less. Workers in Western countries are losing their jobs because their employers see the golden opportunity of employing cheaper labor in places such as Africa and India, thus cutting costs and maximizing their profits. This is exploitation in the name of Mammon. Christian.
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