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Post by PhilipDC78 on Oct 14, 2004 8:51:13 GMT -5
I agree. When our spirits leave our bodies, they are "outside of time". Thus, God could place us anywhere on the timeline (though I personally believe that time is circular rather than linear). God bless Interesting notion, considering the way I have been taught about Christianity's view of time versus other world religions is that time in a Christian perspective is linear. There is a begginning and an end, and you only get one shot through it. Religions such as Hinduism and Buddism view time as circular, where you just keep going around and around, otherwise known as reincarnation. The think that make reincarnation so contrary to the Christian ideology is the notion that you get second chances. If you do not make the right choices in this life, then you will have a chance to make better choices in the next life, or the one after that, or the one after that. In this framework, there is no need for salvation, for atonement. A person can reach salvation themselves, as long as they make enough right decisions in their life, and if they don't, then they can just try again in their next life. Is this how you view time as being "circular", or do you have a different viewpoint?
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Post by AlphaOmega on Oct 14, 2004 9:36:15 GMT -5
Interesting notion, considering the way I have been taught about Christianity's view of time versus other world religions is that time in a Christian perspective is linear. There is a begginning and an end, and you only get one shot through it. Religions such as Hinduism and Buddism view time as circular, where you just keep going around and around, otherwise known as reincarnation. The think that make reincarnation so contrary to the Christian ideology is the notion that you get second chances. If you do not make the right choices in this life, then you will have a chance to make better choices in the next life, or the one after that, or the one after that. In this framework, there is no need for salvation, for atonement. A person can reach salvation themselves, as long as they make enough right decisions in their life, and if they don't, then they can just try again in their next life. Is this how you view time as being "circular", or do you have a different viewpoint? I believe that Time has always co-existed with the One who created all things. God is eternal. And eternity is infinite Time. The two shall exist forevermore. Christian.
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Post by AlphaOmega on Oct 14, 2004 9:49:03 GMT -5
.....or to put it another way, was there a time when the universe didn't exist?
Christian. ;D
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Post by PhilipDC78 on Oct 14, 2004 9:52:56 GMT -5
.....or to put it another way, was there a time when the universe didn't exist? Christian. ;D Time began when the universe was created by God. God is infinite because he is outside of time and space. He created the four dimensional realm of time and space (x,y,and z), and so before the creation of the universe, there was no time (no beginning and no end). It is not really possible understand how exactly that works, when we live in the realm of time and space, but we know that it is true.
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Post by AlphaOmega on Oct 14, 2004 10:07:01 GMT -5
Time began when the universe was created by God. God is infinite because he is outside of time and space. He created the four dimensional realm of time and space (x,y,and z), and so before the creation of the universe, there was no time (no beginning and no end). It is not really possible understand how exactly that works, when we live in the realm of time and space, but we know that it is true. I have to disagree with you as Time itself is neither physical nor spiritual. It's not a physical object and it's not a spirit. It's a dimension. Christian.
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Post by Cohdra on Oct 14, 2004 10:30:47 GMT -5
Interesting notion, considering the way I have been taught about Christianity's view of time versus other world religions is that time in a Christian perspective is linear. There is a begginning and an end, and you only get one shot through it. Religions such as Hinduism and Buddism view time as circular, where you just keep going around and around, otherwise known as reincarnation. The think that make reincarnation so contrary to the Christian ideology is the notion that you get second chances. If you do not make the right choices in this life, then you will have a chance to make better choices in the next life, or the one after that, or the one after that. In this framework, there is no need for salvation, for atonement. A person can reach salvation themselves, as long as they make enough right decisions in their life, and if they don't, then they can just try again in their next life. Is this how you view time as being "circular", or do you have a different viewpoint? Very interesting> I have never equated my belief in circular time to reincarnation. Whether time is circular or linear, you reach a point where you die; and God could choose to keep you out of time, or place you back into time. That being said, death and the after-life (the procesess involved) are a great mystery. Circular time makes more sense to me because any action commited on a circle would influence past present and future. I.E, Adam and Eves fall, Christ's supreme sacrifice, good and bad deeds, etc Do I believe God reincarnates people? I think perhaps a select few, but it is the exception rather than the rule. There is nothing in scripture that considers belief in reincarnation a sin; there is even some text to support it. But I believe, if it does happen, it is extremely rare. It's like the creation vs evolution debate; Do I believe that the earth is as young as creationists say it is...no; Do I believe civilization is as old as the evolutionists say...no....I believe it is much older, and there is evidence of very ancient advanced civilizations having been on this planet....very ancient. I believe that the stories in Genesis are much older than what people think. I am such a radical ...hehe.... God bless
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Post by AlphaOmega on Oct 14, 2004 10:43:21 GMT -5
The dimensions of Time and Space must always have existed, otherwise God couldn't have existed, and therefore couldn't have created anything. Creation required them, and God is present in them. I also believe that all living things originally existed as another form of matter. These views I hold, having read Genesis, ch.1, vv.1-2:
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless (existing in another state?) and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep (?), and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. (?)"
Question: Did God really create everthing out of nothing? Or could the raw materials have already existed?
Christian.
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Post by Cohdra on Oct 14, 2004 10:48:43 GMT -5
The dimensions of Time and Space must always have existed, otherwise God couldn't have existed, and therefore couldn't have created anything. Creation required them, and God is present in them. I also believe that all living things originally existed as another form of matter. These views I hold, having read Genesis, ch.1, vv.1-2: "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless (existing in another state?) and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep (?), and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. (?)" Question: Did God really create everthing out of nothing? Or could the raw materials have already existed? Christian. Not necessarily true. God is sufficient unto himself....time is a creation of God, not something he requires; I believe all "space" is contained within God. It is not a creation...it is God. Just my thoughts God bless
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Post by AlphaOmega on Oct 14, 2004 11:11:05 GMT -5
Jesus Christ said "I am the Alpha and the Omega, who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty". It's interesting to note that though He is eternal, He is talking in the past, present and future tenses about Himself, which suggests He exists in time and not outside it. We know also that God is unchanging, that there was never a time when He was incapable of thought, movement or speech. And we know that God exists as three persons - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit - in perfect relationship with one another.
Christian.
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Post by AlphaOmega on Oct 14, 2004 11:13:20 GMT -5
Not necessarily true. God is sufficient unto himself....time is a creation of God, not something he requires; I believe all "space" is contained within God. It is not a creation...it is God. Just my thoughts God bless How could God have created something that is neither physical nor spiritual? Christian.
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Post by AlphaOmega on Oct 14, 2004 11:23:09 GMT -5
Cohdra,
I find this whole business of the nature of Time, Space and matter/energy and their possible relationships with God endlessly fascinating. An unbeliever once said to me "If God created everything in the beginning, who created God?" Good question.
Christian.
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Post by Cohdra on Oct 14, 2004 11:27:22 GMT -5
Jesus Christ said "I am the Alpha and the Omega, who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty". It's interesting to note that though He is eternal, He is talking in the past, present and future tenses about Himself, which suggests He exists in time and not outside it. We know also that God is unchanging, that there was never a time when He was incapable of thought, movement or speech. And we know that God exists as three persons - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit - in perfect relationship with one another. Christian. Another theory behind Christ's words would be: All things began with Christ and all things end (at the judgement) with Christ. I feel that when Christ speaks about Himself as as past, present, and future, the case could be made that this indicates all three are present to him all at once. To have this perspective would indicate being outside of time. I believe Jesus can enter and leave time at will. God bless
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Post by AlphaOmega on Oct 14, 2004 11:49:02 GMT -5
Another theory behind Christ's words would be: All things began with Christ and all things end (at the judgement) with Christ. I feel that when Christ speaks about Himself as as past, present, and future, the case could be made that this indicates all three are present to him all at once. To have this perspective would indicate being outside of time. I believe Jesus can enter and leave time at will. God bless Cohdra, I believe that because God is sovereign over all creation and knows us 100%, He is uniquely placed to read the whole of human history perfectly - past, present, and future. Christian.
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Post by Cohdra on Oct 14, 2004 12:03:23 GMT -5
How could God have created something that is neither physical nor spiritual? Christian. I'm with you I find it very fascinating myself In answer to your question....God can create anything. The laws that govern our physical world are just that...laws for our world. God may have different worlds in different realities that are governed by totally different laws God bless
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Post by Cohdra on Oct 14, 2004 12:06:10 GMT -5
Cohdra, I believe that because God is sovereign over all creation and knows us 100%, He is uniquely placed to read the whole of human history perfectly - past, present, and future. Christian. Very true......this unique position God holds would either place Him outside of time, or He is not governed by the law of time. God bless
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