|
Post by PhilipDC78 on Jul 29, 2004 9:25:24 GMT -5
Philip, I didn't mean that. I was talking about heterosexual and homosexual couples. I can't think of anything worse then having sex with a parent, sister or close relative, except for possibly one of the following: Necrophilia (sex with dead people) Bestiality (sex with animals) Paedophilia (sex with children) Those are definitely no-go areas! Christian. Which actually raises an interesting point for me that I have been thinking for a while. Over history up until about 30 or so years ago, homosexuality was considered deviant behavior. It was wrong, immoral, and illegal. Now in this world of change, it has become almost "normal". It is a very slippery slope that we are on. If today we start saying that homosexuality is "normal" then what is next. In 50 years will we be saying that having multiple spouses is "normal"? How about multiple spouses of multiple genders? Can a man be married to a man and a woman at the same time? In 100 years will we be saying that incest is "normal"? That a person can marry their siblings, or their parents, or other close relatives? In 150 years will we be saying that pedophilia is "normal"? In 200 years will we be saying that bestiality is "normal"? Where does it all end? And as to your original point. Not all relationships, whether with the same sex, or the opposite sex result in sex. I can love my sisters in Christ like I love my very own flesh and blood sisters, and I will never have sex with them. The thought will never even enter my mind, and I can still love them very deaply. Sex does not equal love. Love does not equal sex.
|
|
|
Post by AlphaOmega on Jul 29, 2004 10:17:14 GMT -5
Which actually raises an interesting point for me that I have been thinking for a while. Over history up until about 30 or so years ago, homosexuality was considered deviant behavior. It was wrong, immoral, and illegal. Still is. Now in this world of change, it has become almost "normal". It is a very slippery slope that we are on. I agree. And one only has to consider the health risks connected with anal sex to know that homosexual intercourse is wrong. God didn't design the anal pkmtyolpage for sex, therefore it's a perversion of the sexual act which ought to involve the male *** and the female ***. That's why God created us male and female. If today we start saying that homosexuality is "normal" then what is next? Good question. In 50 years will we be saying that having multiple spouses is "normal"? How about multiple spouses of multiple genders? Multiple genders would be very interesting. ;D I have sometimes wished that God had created me female rather than male.....Can a man be married to a man and a woman at the same time? In 100 years will we be saying that incest is "normal"? I doubt it. Unless, of course, the state wants to be held responsible for the births of genetically and physically damaged children.That a person can marry their siblings, or their parents, or other close relatives? In 150 years will we be saying that pedophilia is "normal"? In 200 years will we be saying that bestiality is "normal"? Where does it all end? Good questions. Though, hopefully, the potentially dangerous consequences of such behaviours will serve as an effective deterrent for the great majority of people.....And as to your original point. Not all relationships, whether with the same sex, or the opposite sex result in sex. I can love my sisters in Christ like I love my very own flesh and blood sisters, and I will never have sex with them. The thought will never even enter my mind, and I can still love them very deeply. Sex does not equal love. Love does not equal sex. I agree. But sex can be the highest physical expression of love between husband and wife.
Christian.
|
|
|
Post by AlphaOmega on Jul 29, 2004 10:25:42 GMT -5
There's something I don't understand here. Why is it considered rude to use the adult words for male and female genitalia? The world has no problem using immature and vulgar words instead, so why is it considered wrong to use the proper words on these message boards?
Christian.
|
|
|
Post by I2AM4GOD on Jul 29, 2004 11:09:16 GMT -5
AlphaOmega,
So you've wished that God created you female instead of male? Sounds to me like you need therapy. ;D But seriously, wishing you were a woman isn't a cool thought to have. I know that I wouldn't want to have periods, and suffer morning sickness, give birth, and go through the menopause. You're not thinking of having a gender change operation are you?
Andy.
|
|
|
Post by heathen76 on Jul 29, 2004 13:54:27 GMT -5
AlphaOmega, So you've wished that God created you female instead of male? Sounds to me like you need therapy. ;D But seriously, wishing you were a woman isn't a cool thought to have. I know that I wouldn't want to have periods, and suffer morning sickness, give birth, and go through the menopause. You're not thinking of having a gender change operation are you? Andy. I think that wishing oneself to be a different gender is more cool than being schizophrenic.
|
|
|
Post by AlphaOmega on Aug 2, 2004 8:00:48 GMT -5
I think that wishing oneself to be a different gender is more cool than being schizophrenic. heathen, It's not cool to think that you are God. That suggests schizophrenia. Wishing to be the opposite gender isn't good either because God gave us our gender. I wish I could be happy with being male. I'm not. Perhaps we're all a little or a lot screwed-up. Christian.
|
|
|
Post by silveradofarmgirl on Aug 7, 2004 2:02:40 GMT -5
Can a man love another man like a man loves a woman? No. And ultimately the love of a man for a woman and vice versa will lead to sex. If a man loves another man as deeply, then that love must ultimately find its expression through anal intercourse. Is that love or lust? Are the two one and the same? Christian. I have to disagree with you here. My best friend of over 20 years happens to be male. I'm female. We are extremely close and yes I do love him dearly. BUT I have never, and never will, have sex with him. for one, I will not have sex before marriage. No way. secondly, he is gay. And I don't think ANY less of him for it. 3, there are a LOT of different kinds of love. Not just the "sexual love". I love my dog, I adore and love my horse too. I love my niece, and my brothers, and God, and my mom, and my grandparents and even my truck. The list goes on. But I am NOT going to have sex with my dog, or my horse, or any of my relatives, or even my truck. I don't think homosexuality is a "sin". There is myriad research that proves that the brainwaves of a homosexual man are different than a heterosexual man- in fact their brainwaves and even the organic structure of their brain is very similar to a female brain. I think it is an organic "birth defect" if you will, for lack of better terms. Do we say that children born with a birthmark are abominations of God? Well years ago babies were killed because they were "marked by the devil". Do we say that people who are in wheelchairs or are blind are evil and have demons in them, and are going to Hell? of course not. I believe that homosexuality is not a sin. I believe it is a naturally occurring deviation from the norm, no more "sinful" than a birthmark or cateracts.
|
|
|
Post by AlphaOmega on Aug 7, 2004 7:00:18 GMT -5
I have to disagree with you here. My best friend of over 20 years happens to be male. I'm female. We are extremely close and yes I do love him dearly. BUT I have never, and never will, have sex with him. for one, I will not have sex before marriage. No way. Good.secondly, he is gay. And I don't think ANY less of him for it. Good.3, there are a LOT of different kinds of love. Not just the "sexual love". I love my dog, I adore and love my horse too. I love my niece, and my brothers, and God, and my mom, and my grandparents and even my truck. The list goes on. But I am NOT going to have sex with my dog, or my horse, or any of my relatives, or even my truck. Glad to hear it!I don't think homosexuality is a "sin". But it says in scripture that homosexuals cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven. There is myriad research that proves that the brainwaves of a homosexual man are different than a heterosexual man- in fact their brainwaves and even the organic structure of their brain is very similar to a female brain. I think it is an organic "birth defect" if you will, for lack of better terms. Hmm..... That sounds about as true as the 'gay gene' myth. If the brains of homosexual men are more like the brains of women, then one needs to ask the question, "why?" I believe that it could have something to do with the fact that they, like us, have inherited the sin of Adam and as a result are physically as well as spiritually affected by it. I have a friend who is severely disabled because of the sins of her ancestors. She is in her forties and can do very little for herself, though she can talk and has all her mental faculties, and she knows God's love for her! The Lord has told her that He is going to heal her.Do we say that children born with a birthmark are abominations of God? No, we don't.Well years ago babies were killed because they were "marked by the devil". And those who did the killing didn't know Jesus Christ.Do we say that people who are in wheelchairs or are blind are evil and have demons in them, and are going to Hell? of course not. I agree with you entirely. I believe that homosexuality is not a sin. I believe it is a naturally occurring deviation from the norm, no more "sinful" than a birthmark or cateracts. Active, homosexual behaviour is an abomination in God's sight. It says so in the Bible.
Christian.
|
|
|
Post by silveradofarmgirl on Aug 7, 2004 12:04:02 GMT -5
Do we say that children born with a birthmark are abominations of God?
No, we don't.
Well years ago babies were killed because they were "marked by the devil".
And those who did the killing didn't know Jesus Christ.
Explain the colonial witch trials. Many women, men and yes even children were murdered by those who used the bible and God's "word" to persecute and murder innocent people, some whose only crime was a birthmark or mole, which they took as a "mark of the beast".
|
|
|
Post by PhilipDC78 on Aug 7, 2004 13:30:31 GMT -5
I believe that homosexuality is not a sin. I believe it is a naturally occurring deviation from the norm, no more "sinful" than a birthmark or cateracts. Then you haven't read a good book that I like to call "The Bible". God loves the homosexual, but hates homosexuality. It is something that can be changed through the power of God.
|
|
|
Post by PhilipDC78 on Aug 7, 2004 13:32:36 GMT -5
Explain the colonial witch trials. Many women, men and yes even children were murdered by those who used the bible and God's "word" to persecute and murder innocent people, some whose only crime was a birthmark or mole, which they took as a "mark of the beast". Again, these people did not understand the Bible. They abused the Bible and Christianity for their own purposes.
|
|
|
Post by marysia on Aug 7, 2004 13:40:36 GMT -5
for one, I will not have sex before marriage. GOOD FOR YOU!! That's a challenge I can attest too -- stay strong and God bless you in that! My question and assumptions -- you are not married and do not want to have sex before marriage because it is against the teachings of Christ and the bible?! You are not married because you have not found that perfect mate that God has designed specifically for you. therefore, the relationships that you do have don't last and are not marriage material. You will not just marry someone to marry someone and therefore have maritally approved sex?! you are staying single because you have not found he whom God has created for you... I am under the same challenge. I do not know if I will ever find him or if he even exists. God calls people to many roles in this life - He gives us many challanges. I too believe that a large percentage of homosexuals ARE born that way - predisposed. however -- just as they may be born with that tendency/desire - does not mean that have to act upon it. They are single - just as we are single and therefore - a they can not have a biblically sanctioned marriage - nor can we at this present time - there should be no sex. just a thought and hope it makes sense in type as it did in my head PS Nice "seeing" you again -hope the horses are well!
|
|
|
Post by silveradofarmgirl on Aug 8, 2004 0:59:28 GMT -5
Then you haven't read a good book that I like to call "The Bible". God loves the homosexual, but hates homosexuality. It is something that can be changed through the power of God. Yes I have read the bible, front to back. Can you quote me in the new testament KJV where God says He hates homosexuality?? Because all anyone ever quotes is Leviticus, and sorry thats way off base. I don't think it can be "cured" or "changed" through the power of God or any other means, scientific or spiritual. We are what we are. God don't make junk. If He didn't intend for some people to have that yearning, then He wouldn't have created it.
|
|
|
Post by PhilipDC78 on Aug 8, 2004 16:16:56 GMT -5
Yes I have read the bible, front to back. Can you quote me in the new testament KJV where God says He hates homosexuality?? Because all anyone ever quotes is Leviticus, and sorry thats way off base. I don't think it can be "cured" or "changed" through the power of God or any other means, scientific or spiritual. We are what we are. God don't make junk. If He didn't intend for some people to have that yearning, then He wouldn't have created it. Well, for one thing, Satan corrupts. He takes something that God made (the love between a man and a woman in marriage) and corrupts it (homosexuality, adultery, fornication, incest, bestiality, necrophilia, pedophilia, etc). 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, " Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God." Just out of curiousity, what is the reason that the command against homosexuality in Leviticus is "way off base"? God did not make us sin, yet we sin. It is our sin nature. God didn't make some people be natural alcoholics (having a weakness to alcohol), but it some people are. It is the inherent sin nature in us. It is only through the power of Jesus that we can overcome our sin nature.
|
|
|
Post by Archangelwolf on Aug 9, 2004 0:52:47 GMT -5
silveradofarmgirl,
You asked for it! Well, you got it!
First of all, let us look at 1 Corinthians 6:9-11. "Do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Do not be decieved! Fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, SODOMITES, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, robbers-none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God. And this is what some of you used to be. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God."
Yeah, I know the new CURRENT Bibles say that. But we all know that our bible has been translated and retranslated over and over again. Well, okay...that is a fair assessment. Let us go back to the first bibles, then.
Paul, who wrote 1 Corinthians, wrote and spoke fluent Greek. In fact, even though he was Jewish, some say he spoke Greek better than the Aramaic and Hebrew tongues of his own people. In the original letter to the Corinthians, in the place where it says "sodomites," there were actually two words. One was "malekos," which was defined as a man who publicly dressed as feminine. The other word was "arsenokoites," which was defined as a man who fornicated with other men. In the original letter, Paul wrote to the Corinthians condemning these two acts, because many in Corinth had once belonged to the pagan religions of the Roman gods; and these religions allowed for these practices to take place.
Are there translation errors in the Bible? Unfortunately, I must say yes. However, the translators got this one right.
Now, on another note, you mentioned the whole gene thing. Are their genes that show up in homosexuals, and not in heterosexuals? Yes. However, the same is true of alcoholics, smokers, pedophiles, and other addictive behaviors. Does this mean that we should legitimize their lifestyles? God forbid!
The problem with the way that Christians treat the homosexual community is in suppressing their problem. We should not tell them they are less human because of their afflictions. It is like having an alcoholic at an AA meeting finally accept that he or she is an alcoholic, and then we say, "Okay, you can go home now." Then, we follow them home and stand outside his or her house with ugly signs protesting their lifestyle. No wonder homosexuals have a bad relationship with the Christian church.
What we must do is change our approach. Allow homosexuals to "come out of the closet." Tell them that we love them, and that God loves them. But God does not wish for them to practice homosexuality. Just like drug addiction, alcoholism, and yes even pedophilism, we have to believe and have faith that God can heal them, AND HE WILL!
With God, all things are possible!
To everyone who knows someone who is of the gay community, we do not wish any ill will towards them. We need to stop the "gay-bashing," and preach the love of Christ. It is okay for them to come out that they are gay. We need to allow them to learn about our Creator, and what His Will is for their lives; and allow them the opportunity to turn from a sinful lifestyle to a life of righteousness.
silveradofarmgirl, I will be praying for your friend.
Arch.
|
|