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Post by genesda on May 6, 2004 8:00:28 GMT -5
Yes - the law was only for the Jew; not only that, but "it was added. LOL!!! I knew it! Then only Jews could be sinners!!
The bible is explicit. "Sin is transgression of the law"
Which laws?
You really need to stop listening to whoever you're listening to and start studying the scriptures.
You just want to be able to deny certain portions of the scriptures, the parts that you don't like, and still feel comfortable.
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Post by Nicodemus on May 6, 2004 8:37:06 GMT -5
Thanks. I'll rip Galatians out of my Bible. NOT!
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Post by genesda on May 6, 2004 9:54:55 GMT -5
Thanks. I'll rip Galatians out of my Bible. NOT! Don't rip it out. Try understanding what's being talked about. Galations doesn't cancel any others scriptures out.
The bible is ONE book of God's will and instruction for mankind, not just certain parts of it that we like.
You, like many wish to believe that obedience is something for the O.T. people and not modern mankind.
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Post by Nicodemus on May 6, 2004 17:49:21 GMT -5
"19Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. 20Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one" (Gal. 3:19-20)
"For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ" (John 1:17)
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Post by keikikoka on May 6, 2004 18:13:14 GMT -5
That is one of the many defitions the bible gives us of sin, however it is not the only definition.
Proverbs 24:9 "The devising of folly is sin"
1 John 5:17 "All unrighteousness is sin"
Romans 14:23 "whatever is not from faith is sin."
James 4:17 "Therefore, to one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin."
Psalms 51:5 "Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me. "
Sin is cleary not limited (and not necessarily defined as) transgression of the old testament law and commandments. 1 John 3:4 "Sin is transgression of the law" may be refering to the law Jesus gave to us. "34 'A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. '"
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Post by genesda on May 7, 2004 6:26:54 GMT -5
"19Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. 20Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one" (Gal. 3:19-20) "For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ" (John 1:17) Quoting scriptures is not proof of understanding them.
I'll say this again, one verse or book of the bible doesn't cancel any other parts of it.
"All scripture is inspired by God and is profitable for doctrine, reproof, .....etc."
The bible has no contradictions and if you believe there are, then it's your understanding that's the problem.
The law wasn't "added" because of transgression. Without the law there can be no transgression.
You cannot break that which you don't have.
Sin is transgression of the law.
Again, understanding is what's lacking by you.
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Post by genesda on May 7, 2004 6:34:25 GMT -5
That is one of the many defitions the bible gives us of sin, however it is not the only definition. Proverbs 24:9 "The devising of folly is sin" "Devising". Without a limit/law, you can't devise. Sin first originates in the mind/place of devising. [/color] 1 John 5:17 "All unrighteousness is sin" Limits/laws determines unrighteousness. [/color] Romans 14:23 "whatever is not from faith is sin." I think you've misapplied this one. More is needed to get the right context. [/color] James 4:17 "Therefore, to one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin." How does one "KNOW" the right thiong? The law points out right and wrong/sin. [/color] Psalms 51:5 "Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me. " Another misapplication of the scriptures. [/color] Sin is cleary not limited (and not necessarily defined as) transgression of the old testament law and commandments. 1 John 3:4 "Sin is transgression of the law" may be refering to the law Jesus gave to us. "34 'A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. '" There is no such thing as "O.T. Law" There was no N.T. law when Jesus spoke, and those two commands weren't new. They were O.T. commands as well and I've posted them just yesterday. [/color] |
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Post by Nicodemus on May 7, 2004 7:02:26 GMT -5
The Bible = "It [the Law] was added because of transgressions"
Gene = "The law wasn't "added" because of transgression"
Gee, what a quandry!!! Who shall I believe?
God or gene, God or gene. . . Wow, that is a tough one.
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Post by Nicodemus on May 7, 2004 7:45:35 GMT -5
"Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added[/u] because of transgressions, till[/u] the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained in the hand of a mediator. Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have give life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. But the Scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe" (Gal. 3:19-22)
If the law was not given as grounds for obtaining favor with GOD, either initial or additional, and if the law did not condition the promises of the Abrahamic covenant, why then the law? GOD's plan included for it two purposes.
To reveal sin as transgression (Gal. 3:19-20). Paul tells us, "It was added because [for the sake] of transgression." This does not mean for curbing transgressions; but as in Romans 4:15 "Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression" and 5:20 "Moreover the law entered that the offense might abount. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound", it is best taken to mean for revealing the true character of sin as trangression. The law shows that sin is not only a missing the mark, but a willful violation of explicit commands. Instead of providing righteousness, it magnifies sin's guilt!
"It was added" (v. 19) is not the same word as in verse 15. In that case "addeth" refers to fresh, modifying provisions. Here "added" means to place alongside. The law was supplementary and subordinate to the covenant. It was also a temporary measure -- "till the seed should come to whom the promise [still in force] was made." That "seed" is CHRIST (3:16). The coming of CHRIST ends the force of the law while the promise goes on. "Ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator" is designed to show the law inferior to the promise, because it did not come directly from GOD as did the promise. Verse 20 seems to say that a mediator is necessary for the two-party law, but the covenant was a one-sided affair which GOD would complete by Himself. So we see GOD walking alone between the pieces in the cutting of the covenant (Gen. 15:12, 17-18): "And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him. . . . And it came to pkmtyolp, that when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that pkmtyolped between those pieces. In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates"; later he confermed this by an oath: "Wherein God, willing more abundantly to show unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath: That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us" (Heb. 6:17-18). Grace alone guarantees the promise!
To restrict the sinner to faith (3:21-22). The law is not contrary to the promise. The law and the promise have distinct functions, each serving in its own sphere. There is no such thing as a law that can give life; that is for the promise to do. Far from giving righteousness, the law puts the sinner in confinement under the curse and power of the law. The purpose of the law was not just to condemn but to restrict the obtaining of the promise to those who believe. Faith is the only way of escape from the curse of the law. The gift of righteousness comes by faith and faith alone. To seek salvation or a more advanced standing by law is contrary to the law's very purpose
~ From Bondage to Freedom, 1963 by J. Fred Dickinson, Moody Manna
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Post by genesda on May 7, 2004 8:29:20 GMT -5
The Bible = "It [the Law] was added because of transgressions" Gene = "The law wasn't "added" because of transgression" Gee, what a quandry!!! Who shall I believe? God or gene, God or gene. . . Wow, that is a tough one. As I stated, you have no understanding.
AGAIN, no scripture cancels another. [/color] |
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Post by Nicodemus on May 7, 2004 8:39:12 GMT -5
The Bible = "It [the Law] was added because of transgressions" Gene = "The law wasn't "added" because of transgression" Gee, what a quandry!!! Who shall I believe? God or gene, God or gene. . . Wow, that is a tough one. As I stated, you have no understanding.
AGAIN, no scripture cancels another. [/color][/quote] Is it more of an issue that you would not accept anything a Christian tells you anyway because of your own religious indoctrination? |
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Post by Nicodemus on May 7, 2004 8:41:29 GMT -5
The Bible = "It [the Law] was added because of transgressions" Gene = "The law wasn't "added" because of transgression" Gee, what a quandry!!! Who shall I believe? God or gene, God or gene. . . Wow, that is a tough one. As I stated, you have no understanding.
AGAIN, no scripture cancels another. [/color][/quote] By the way, here is a verse which CANCELS itself out! The wages of sin is death . . . but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. You have the A side and the B side, and depending what side you are on determines which statement is true - but you certainly can not have death and spiritual life at the same time. Hmmm? |
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Post by genesda on May 7, 2004 9:47:11 GMT -5
Is it more of an issue that you would not accept anything a Christian tells you anyway because of your own religious indoctrination? Was the plan of salvation formulated BEFORE this world was created or not? BTW, the plan included the law.
Now, if you wish to say that the law was added to a universe that knew no sin, until this Earth was formed then O.K.
The law was not "added" here, but existed from Adam.
It wasn't added BECAUSE of sin, but was already here to identify sin,or there could be no sin.
"Sin is transgression of the law".
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Post by genesda on May 7, 2004 9:58:34 GMT -5
By the way, here is a verse which CANCELS itself out! The wages of sin is death . . . but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. You have the A side and the B side, and depending what side you are on determines which statement is true - but you certainly can not have death and spiritual life at the same time. Hmmm? There's no cancellation here. This is a choice for mankind. Continue in sin and die the second death or repent and accept Jesus' sacrifice in your place. He paid the debt that was due to you and I.
Now, does that mean we can continue in our transgressions? Paul said no. I agree with him.
The Christian is not "under the law" or in other words, not under it's condemnation, because the Christian lives WITHIN THE LAW of God.
This isn't hard to understand. Keeping the law cannot bring salvation, but a return to the sinful lifestyle that was the case before repentence, will bring about a return to aspodfija.
One can walk away from God after he repents, if he chooses to do so.
At amazing facts in the free library, thete is a topic called "can a saved man choose to be lost".
Check it out.
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Post by TarueBeliever on May 13, 2004 14:56:07 GMT -5
Gene,
Your "definition" of sin, "the transgression of the law" (1 John 3:4b KJV) comes from the the faulty translation of the Greek text by the authors of the King James Version of the Bible. In the original Greek, the verse reads …
πας ο ποιων την αμαρτιαν και την ανομιαν ποιει και η αμαρτια εστιν η ανομια
Here’s the same verse transliterated into English characters …
pa's ho poiô'n tê'n hamarti'an kai' tê'n anomi'an poiei' , kai' hê hamarti'a esti'n hê anomi'a .
Translating each word from Greek to English ...
pa's (adjective nominative singular masculine) all
ho poiô'n (verb present active participle nominative singular masculine) he who is doing/making
tê'n hamarti'an (noun accusitive singular feminine) the sin
kai' (conjunction) and
tê'n anomi'an (noun accusitive singular feminine) the lawlessness/lawless conduct
poiei' (verb present active indicative 3rd person singular) he makes/does
, (punctuation) ,
kai' (conjunction) and
hê hamarti'a (noun nominative singular feminine) the sin
esti'n (verb present active indicative 3rd person singular) it is
hê anomei'a (noun nominative singular feminine) the lawlessness/lawless conduct
. (punctuation) .
A rough translation would be …
all he who is doing/making the sin and he lawlessness/lawless conduct he makes/does, and the sin it is the lawlessness/lawless conduct.
A better translation would be …
Everyone who is doing Sin, also does Lawlessness, and Sin is Lawlessness.
From the NASB, 1 John 3:4 reads …
Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.
Sin is not disobedience of the Jewish Law. Sin is disobedience to God’s way in general. It’s disobedience to the civil authority God placed over us. It’s ignoring the convicting of the Holy Spirit to turn from evil and toward Christ. Sin is the whole "I want to be a bad boy/girl" rebellious attitude human beings are so into. People are always so ready to put themselves above any rules, like speed limits, curfews, not caring how much they might hurt other people. That’s "lawlessness." That’s Sin.
Scott
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