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Post by genesda on Apr 28, 2004 8:33:47 GMT -5
In Isaiah 8:20 we are told...... "To the law and the testimony, if they speak not according to this word, is because there is no light in them".
What is the law?
What is the testimony?[/color]
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Post by FaithOfAMustardSeed on Apr 28, 2004 12:30:11 GMT -5
In Isaiah 8:20 we are told...... "To the law and the testimony, if they speak not according to this word, is because there is no light in them".
What is the law?
What is the testimony? [/color] [/quote] It's obvious from the pkmtyolpage which this verse comes from that the law and the testimony refer to the Law of the Covenant that God gave to the Nation Israel and the Covenant itself which God made with the Nation of Israel.
My question to you, Gene, is who is "they" in Isaiah 8:20?
FOAMS
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Post by genesda on Apr 29, 2004 5:02:25 GMT -5
It's obvious from the pkmtyolpage which this verse comes from that the law and the testimony refer to the Law of the Covenant that God gave to the Nation Israel and the Covenant itself which God made with the Nation of Israel.
My question to you, Gene, is who is "they" in Isaiah 8:20?
FOAMS The "they" would be YOU or ME or anyone else who preaches the words of the bible. I wanted you to be more specific on the "law and the Testimony" What are they? Those were two questions. [/color]
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Post by genesda on May 3, 2004 5:12:50 GMT -5
It's obvious from the pkmtyolpage which this verse comes from that the law and the testimony refer to the Law of the Covenant that God gave to the Nation Israel and the Covenant itself which God made with the Nation of Israel.
My question to you, Gene, is who is "they" in Isaiah 8:20?
FOAMS The "they" would be YOU or ME or anyone else who preaches the words of the bible. I wanted you to be more specific on the "law and the Testimony" What are they? Those were two questions. [/color] ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6 days and no takers? What's up? [/color]
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Post by keikikoka on May 3, 2004 17:39:07 GMT -5
Exodus 32:15 And Moses turned, and went down from the mount, and the two tables of the testimony were in his hand: the tables were written on both their sides; on the one side and on the other were they written. 16 And the tables were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God, graven upon the tables.
The testimony is what is written on the stone tables, by what these verses say. The next question would be what is written on these tables. I don't believe it is the "10 commandments" because they were given in exodas 20 and in exodus 24 the Lord hadn't given the tables yet. "12 And the LORD said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them."
The stone tables are given in exodus 31 18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.[/quote]
It is a bit confusing because we are not told specifically what is on the tablets, at least by what I can find thus far.
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Post by Jan on May 3, 2004 23:47:36 GMT -5
In Isaiah 8:20 we are told...... "To the law and the testimony, if they speak not according to this word, is because there is no light in them".
What is the law?
What is the testimony? [/color] [/quote] Gene, Isaiah is talking about folks, such as Saul, who sought "wizards" or men claiming spiritual knowledge that didn't come from the LORD. Isaiah is saying, don't go to these men/women for your answers, etc....they do not have the revelation of God <><
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Post by Nicodemus on May 3, 2004 23:55:46 GMT -5
The answer is found in verse 19. As Jan mentioned, it was written against those that were practicing witchcraft and wizards that peep into their magic stones (sounds like people like Joseph Smith and Ellen G. White - as they would be their modern day equivalents, as well as Edgar Cayce, Kathyrn Kuhlman, Benny Hinn, and other such notable including Sister Emmerich)
What is the law and the testimony? You can find this in Psalm 119.
"Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD. Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart" (vss 1-2) and as one reads through the Psalm the inescapable conclusion is that it is speaking of the Word of God.
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Post by genesda on May 4, 2004 4:31:38 GMT -5
Exodus 32:15 And Moses turned, and went down from the mount, and the two tables of the testimony were in his hand: the tables were written on both their sides; on the one side and on the other were they written. 16 And the tables were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God, graven upon the tables.The testimony is what is written on the stone tables, by what these verses say. The next question would be what is written on these tables. I don't believe it is the "10 commandments" because they were given in exodas 20 and in exodus 24 the Lord hadn't given the tables yet. "12 And the LORD said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them." The stone tables are given in exodus 31 18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.It is a bit confusing because we are not told specifically what is on the tablets, at least by what I can find thus far. Well, we are told that the tablets were to be placed INSIDE the ark, and the written law that was dictated to Moses was to be placed IN THE SIDE OF THE ARK, as a witness against mankind. There is a separation of the laws. We know that the law WRITTEN BY GOD on the tablets was INSIDE thae ark. God didn't write ALL of the law on tablets or Moses wouldn't have been able to carry such large tablets. We do have James referring to the 10 commandments as "Royal Law". The bible says all will be judged by the commandments. The bible says that "doers" of the commandments will have a right to eat of the tree of life. It is the 10 commandments that point out what sin is.
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Post by genesda on May 4, 2004 4:34:40 GMT -5
Gene, Isaiah is talking about folks, such as Saul, who sought "wizards" or men claiming spiritual knowledge that didn't come from the LORD. Isaiah is saying, don't go to these men/women for your answers, etc....they do not have the revelation of God <>< Isaiah is saying that the wizards and such DON'T SPEAK ACCORDING TO THE LAW AND THE TESTIMONY and is warning people about consulting them and others like them.
The "law and the testimony" is not limited to those verses.
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Post by genesda on May 4, 2004 4:45:31 GMT -5
The answer is found in verse 19. As Jan mentioned, it was written against those that were practicing witchcraft and wizards that peep into their magic stones (sounds like people like Joseph Smith and Ellen G. White - as they would be their modern day equivalents, as well as Edgar Cayce, Kathyrn Kuhlman, Benny Hinn, and other such notable including Sister Emmerich) What is the law and the testimony? You can find this in Psalm 119. "Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD. Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart" (vss 1-2) and as one reads through the Psalm the inescapable conclusion is that it is speaking of the Word of God. The "testimony" of an individual is what one speaks. You can't give "testimony" without saying the words. God spoke the 10 commandments before He wrote them on the tablets.
Vs. 19 gives no answers as to what the law and the testimony is, but how the law and the testimony is applied/understood. You also might group yourself in the people you mentioned above because you're giving your own conclusion which can be shown to be slightly contrary to the intentions of the scriptures.
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Post by keikikoka on May 4, 2004 6:12:20 GMT -5
I don't disagree with you, but I would like to see scriptural referances. Or God could write small That's not a great argument. Now.. You are either lying or you havn't read James. James 2:8 says If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF," you are doing well. You realize every time someone said "commandment" they don't have to be refering to the 10 commandments. Jesus said he gave us a new commandment, to love our neighbor as ourself. Not accourding to Romans 7:7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law.
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Post by Nicodemus on May 4, 2004 9:14:37 GMT -5
Gene, I'm not going to waste my time with you on this, but just for others that might also have missed the point. The answer is seen in that Isaiah 8:20 was written, contextually, to tell believers to trust and rely on His Word, the Word of God, as recorded in the Scriptures as well as that Scripture that was being spoken to them by the prophets - and not fortune tellers.
Gene, the way to know whether you are hearing from a prophet of God is that that speaker have no less than an absolute 100% accuracy rating. What was Ellen G. White's batting average?
I know that you want to twist this into some seventh-day adventist propaganda - but it simply is not possible.
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Post by genesda on May 6, 2004 6:24:11 GMT -5
I don't disagree with you, but I would like to see scriptural referances. Read Exodus. [/color] Or God could write small That's not a great argument. Now.. You are either lying or you havn't read James. James 2:8 says If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF," you are doing well. The last 6 commandments are concerning your neighbors. do you deny that? Did Jesus say "love God with all your heart mind and soul, and love your neighbor as yourself"? Did He say that on those two hang all the law? Did Jesus say, "if you love Me, keep My commandments?" [/color] You realize every time someone said "commandment" they don't have to be refering to the 10 commandments. Jesus said he gave us a new commandment, to love our neighbor as ourself. I've already posted the scriptures, but here they are again: (Deu 6:5 KJV) And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
(Lev 19:18 KJV) Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
As you can see, they are not "new", except to the ears of those that were hearing them for the first time. [/color] Not accourding to Romans 7:7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. Right. The law points out what sin is. [/color]
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Post by genesda on May 6, 2004 6:27:44 GMT -5
Gene, I'm not going to waste my time with you on this, but just for others that might also have missed the point. The answer is seen in that Isaiah 8:20 was written, contextually, to tell believers to trust and rely on His Word, the Word of God, as recorded in the Scriptures as well as that Scripture that was being spoken to them by the prophets - and not fortune tellers. Gene, the way to know whether you are hearing from a prophet of God is that that speaker have no less than an absolute 100% accuracy rating. What was Ellen G. White's batting average? I know that you want to twist this into some seventh-day adventist propaganda - but it simply is not possible. Have I ever mentioned E. White here? The bible calls the ark, the ark of the testimony. Maybe it's you who has a twisted view of the scriptures. Isaiah 8:20 doesn't only apply in that one verse. This is typical. When you have no answer, you attack persons. You probably think the tablets were only for the Jews since God gave them the tablets, right? [/color]
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Post by Nicodemus on May 6, 2004 7:04:52 GMT -5
Yes - the law was only for the Jew; not only that, but "it was added.
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