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Post by I2AM4GOD on Aug 28, 2003 10:19:13 GMT -5
Any thoughts? Andy.  |
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Post by Panther on Aug 28, 2003 10:56:49 GMT -5
Good thread, looking forward to reading responses.
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Post by billbo1970 on Aug 28, 2003 12:25:24 GMT -5
What do you mean by original temptation? Original temptation of Eve, or the temptation of Christ?
I'm assuming you mean Christ, and of course it was necessary. Christ had to become fully human & to be tempted in all the ways & areas that WE are/were. Christ needed to empathise with us & be offered up as the perfect lamb.. sinless & blameless in the eyes of God, yet having been tempted in all the ways that we were.
We cannot understand the ways of God. He is our creator, who are we to know or question His ways? Parents get upset when they have to explain to their children WHY they make certain decisions. How much more incomprehensible would the plans & decisions of the Almighty God be to ones such as us? And who are we to question Him?[/color]
Isaiah 55:8
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,"
declares the LORD .
PIC, Bill [/color]
edited for typo's[/size]
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Post by Maranata on Aug 29, 2003 14:53:01 GMT -5
Besides of what Bill has said, look at the significance of satans (the acuser) when he dares to tempt Jesus the son of GOD and GOD in the flesh.
So if he dares to do this to the Son of GOD how much more he will do to us as mare humans?
This haves more symbolisim than many can see at a glance. He new who Jesus is and still dare to do so and tempt Him against Himself. Remember what Jesus said that a realm divided will not succed!
But Jesus have succed already!
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Post by Agape on Aug 29, 2003 17:06:12 GMT -5
I thought the question was about the temptation eve had with the apple, I would have thought that was the original temptation. I just asked a question like the one I'm going to ask here on another thread.
If God knew us before we were born and he knew what our life was going to be like and how we are going to die then He knew eve would eat the apple so why would God bother with telling them not to, He could have just created them as sinners I would have thought.
I know I must be missing something here, hoping someone will have an answer for me. Thanks
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Post by billbo1970 on Aug 29, 2003 17:08:28 GMT -5
If God knew us before we were born and he knew what our life was going to be like and how we are going to die then He knew eve would eat the apple so why would God bother with telling them not to, He could have just created them as sinners I would have thought.
PIC, Bill [/color] |
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Post by Archangelwolf on Aug 29, 2003 17:28:27 GMT -5
I agree that if Satan would tempt Jesus, then how much more will he tempt us? That is an accurate assessment.
As far as the temptation at Eden, I believe it has to do with choice. God wanted Adam and Eve to CHOOSE to obey Him. If the Tree had not been in the garden, then how could they choose? There would not have been any alternative.
I do not believe that we are preordained to die at a certain time. This is a philosophy that has been preached for centuries, even by Charles Manson. If we are supposed to die at a certain time, then what is the fuss about abortion? Are these babies not going to die at that time anyways? And capital punishment; are these criminals going to die anyways whether we give them an injection or not? Come on! This just sounds ridiculous.
The Bible says that we can lengthen our days. Honoring our parents was one way. There were others mentioned as well.
Later,
Arch.
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Post by Jan on Aug 29, 2003 21:31:58 GMT -5
As far as I understand Scripture, the original temptation was in the Garden; and yes, it was necessary. Our Lord God needed to know if man would adhere to His commands or not. Now, regarding our Lord Jesus Christ, all the temptations Jesus faced in Matthew were legitimate offers. The struggle in Gethsemane was a real, difficult experience. One might even say that Jesus experienced worse temptation than we do, because we usually surrender before the devil brings out his worst weapons. Jesus stayed firm through the most powerful temptations in Satan's arsenal. Though the human nature of Jesus may have had desires which temptation could target, His divine nature would ensure that He would never actually decide to sin.  <>< |
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Post by Kvasir on Aug 29, 2003 23:40:43 GMT -5
Great topic! This reminds me of one of the "early church heresies." Docetists believed that Jesus had no humanity, and that he only appeared to suffer and die on the cross. This trend in thought was picked up by other groups including the Gnostics. The basic premise behind this was that Jesus, as God was incarnate, and therefore unable to suffer.
Docetism was condemned in 451 AD, and is easily refuted by reading 1 John 4:2-3.
[glow=red,2,300]1 John 4:2-3. "By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; 3and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; and this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world." [/glow]
The temptation of Jesus then becomes an important issue. Satan tempted Jesus because he knew that Jesus (as both man and God) was capable of being tempted. This then makes His suffering and death all the more real when we realize that the pain and anguish he felt was real.
(Bilbo - excellent post, I was just wishing to add a bit and not to disregard your comments).
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Post by larrygn on Aug 31, 2003 20:33:15 GMT -5
I don't believe God wished to have the original temptation in the Garden, and who knows if what is reported is the first, they may have rebuffed more obvious attempts to sin, but in any event it was the Devil's, not God's idea.
Anyway, just how long did Adam and Eve live in he Garden of Eden?
Yours in the Ever Living Christ,
Larry
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Post by Agape on Sept 1, 2003 7:12:37 GMT -5
You say God needed to know yet billbo said God did know they would eat the apple. If God needed to know yet already knew then why was He so angry when they did?
I am sorry but I still don't understand. God knows all,
I would think that if He knew they were going to eat it then He knew that they would not do right, He knew they would not take the opportunity to do right. I really am confused, all of this makes it sound like God was unsure of
what they would do.
Sound more to me like no matter what God did he knew they would be tempted by satan and eat the apple, do you think maybe God planned it that way? Maybe it was His way of introducing them to sin and the consaquinces (sp) of what would happen to all if they disobeyed him. God could have created Adam and Eve not to sin, He is God, He can do everything so I am thinking (and my thinking is always wrong so be nice to me) that He wanted people to sin in the first place otherwise how would we have come to love Him so much, if I never sinned I would think that God was no big deal, I would not be so thankful for everything He has done to me. What good would all the commandment do us if we never sinned.
I think I will start a thread on this in debate because I am really, really confused.
I am sorry I upset you with what I though, it does sound rediculous to me too, I always thought it was a stupid idea but it is what I have always been taught, could you please help me out with the others that are mentioned as well. I love your thoughts on this more then I do the way I was taught.
Blessings,
ysiC Deby
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Post by christian on Mar 15, 2005 8:13:19 GMT -5
I agree that if Satan would tempt Jesus, then how much more will he tempt us? That is an accurate assessment. As far as the temptation at Eden, I believe it has to do with choice. God wanted Adam and Eve to CHOOSE to obey Him. If the Tree had not been in the garden, then how could they choose? There would not have been any alternative. Satan chose to sin against God in Heaven. There is no mention of a Tree of Knowledge there, or a tempter other than Satan..... I do not believe that we are preordained to die at a certain time. This is a philosophy that has been preached for centuries, even by Charles Manson. If we are supposed to die at a certain time, then what is the fuss about abortion? Are these babies not going to die at that time anyways? And capital punishment; are these criminals going to die anyways whether we give them an injection or not? Come on! This just sounds ridiculous. Truth is, we don't know. Do you believe in predestination, and if you do, what do you think it means? The Bible says that we can lengthen our days. Honoring our parents was one way. There were others mentioned as well. True, and perhaps also He knows well in advance whether or not we are going to behave in a manner deserving of that blessing. If we dishonour our parents, He may already have lessened our days. I believe God has already planned in advance how many days we are going to live, having already decided when, how, and why we are going to die, according to the sins that we are going to commit in this life and possibly also the sinful actions that others may commit against us. They are the things that He has allowed to determine the number of our days here on earth. And only He knows. And babies who are aborted go to a better place; to be in the presence of their Maker.
Andy. |
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Post by larrygn on Mar 15, 2005 14:55:16 GMT -5
God well knows everything, but not in a direct line. The Eternal God has given us free will. That allows us to make choices. The Eternal God knows all the choices that will come, and what the senerios are, but not what we shall chose. He is like a trillion-trillion of the world's greatest computers.
The original temptation was allowed because God us free will. He made us different from the angles who were made to serve Him. We have to chose the Eternal God, and when man failed, we had to chose the Eternal Christ.
It could all have been different, but we chose what we have now, and we still are chosing what we want, anot what is best for mankind and the Eternal God. There will be a price to pay.
Larry
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Post by marysia on Mar 16, 2005 10:25:04 GMT -5
God is our Father and Adam & Eve were His children - just as we are....
Parents teach their children, training them up, instilling values, morals and faith. Parents give their children the tools to make right & proper decisions - however this is not always the case.
God does not force us to love Him or His Son - this is a choice. This is the right decision. Temptations are there to test and strengthen our faith and judgement.
The original temptation of A&E can also show us that - we all make mistakes - even those who were formed first and by God's own hand. sometimes when things are really bad i think of them or even Peter - these were people who KNEW God & CHrist and i mean KNEW KNEW and they turned their backs on Them and found their way back - it gives me strength to know that no matter how often i fall short or fail completely - it's okay GOd will still love me.
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Post by christian on Mar 16, 2005 11:32:29 GMT -5
God well knows everything, but not in a direct line. The Eternal God has given us free will. That allows us to make choices. The Eternal God knows all the choices that will come, and what the senerios are, but not what we shall chose. He is like a trillion-trillion of the world's greatest computers. The original temptation was allowed because God us free will. He made us different from the angles who were made to serve Him. We have to chose the Eternal God, and when man failed, we had to chose the Eternal Christ. It could all have been different, but we chose what we have now, and we still are chosing what we want, anot what is best for mankind and the Eternal God. There will be a price to pay. Larry Didn't God create us to serve and minister to Him? And won't we be like the angels one day? |
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