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Post by CatholicChristian on Jul 27, 2003 22:40:56 GMT -5
we focus on this one because its the only one of the ten that the church delights to trample in the mud. I never see any controversy over the others or the Beatitudes. Did you read the rest of the post about the Greatest Commandment? God Bless!
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Post by AmericanBetty on Jul 27, 2003 22:58:01 GMT -5
I also keep wondering why only Catholics are being singled out for Sunday worship. I really know of no Christian denomination that doesn't follow this. It sounds to me like someone belongs to one of those "Catholics are going hell" churches. Thank goodness I stopped worrying about those types long ago. I pray very deep and beautiful prayers that I have never heard in Protestant prayer. BTW none that I am thinking about have mention of The Blessed Mother. I can't imagine a faith that would teach these words and not be faithful to Christ!
"we focus on this one because its the only one of the ten that the church delights to trample in the mud. I never see any controversy over the others or the Beatitudes. " And who is "we"?
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Post by CatholicChristian on Jul 27, 2003 23:07:59 GMT -5
I also keep wondering why only Catholics are being singled out for Sunday worship. I really know of no Christian denomination that doesn't follow this. It sounds to me like someone belongs to one of those "Catholics are going hell" churches. Thank goodness I stopped worrying about those types long ago. I pray very deep and beautiful prayers that I have never heard in Protestant prayer. BTW none that I am thinking about have mention of The Blessed Mother. I can't imagine a faith that would teach these words and not be faithful to Christ! "we focus on this one because its the only one of the ten that the church delights to trample in the mud. I never see any controversy over the others or the Beatitudes. " And who is "we"? "We" are the Seventh Day Adventists. Peace and God Bless! CC
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Post by Protestant on Jul 27, 2003 23:35:27 GMT -5
because the church of Rome is responsible for the change of the day of worship from saturday to sunday. The other sunday observers follow her example rather than the bible.
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Post by RealistState on Jul 28, 2003 5:07:15 GMT -5
Catholics misquote matt 16 to try to prove that Peter was the first Pope. Matt16: 22Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, "Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!" 23But He turned and said to Peter, "Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men." not a good start for a future leader to be called Satan. Also Peter's faith did fail when he denied Jesus 3 times. Peter was certainly prominant. But he was not the head of the church and was not the first Pope. Actually I think alot of others misquote what the "rock" is supposed to be, but feel free to say it is th Catholics that got it wrong. And if this is the case, what does Luke 22:31-32 mean to you? And are you saying Our Lord is contradicitng himself? In Luke 22, Jesus warns Peter to be on guard against Satan. Then in Matthew 16 Jesus is saying that Peter is satan? Don't you think that Our Lord knows who Satan is? Don't you think He is referring to the temptation (such as those that were presented in the desert)? I certainly don't think Jesus was calling Peter satan. That would be a very odd interpreptation. I wonder if others think that is what this pkmtyolpage means. Also, in Luke 22:31-32, Jesus recognizes that Peter will fail Him, yet will do penance and be forgiven.
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Post by marysia on Jul 28, 2003 8:00:21 GMT -5
AmericanBetty No, i't not the same. The Roman priesthood claims to be a mediating priesthood that people must go to for forgivness. You pope even said that no one can go directly to God for forgivness. gene -- will you re-read what you wrote? i apologize as this will sound harsh -- but -- quit lying. the Rcc priests do NOT forgive sins -- they absolve as was told by Jesus in the Scriptures -- it's been gone over again and again -- JESUS is the ONLY one that forgives sins!
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Post by AmericanBetty on Jul 28, 2003 9:45:37 GMT -5
Marysia, I didn't write that!! LOL Thanks for being on my side... but I swear I know that my priest doesn't forgive my sins. I know the reconciliation sacrement is missed on Protestants but I have to say I LOVE IT! Sometimes when you go you are just talking to the Lord in a quiet box. But there have been confessions where I wish the priest had all day to talk to me! My recent one had me laughing about my guilt over disciplining my kids. He put my mind at ease. Now I know it is said that you get that when you pray and it is true that when I take my troubles to God I am freed from what I am praying about. But there is something to be said about talking things over. After all we use this message board for the same things. Talking is how I work things out.
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Post by genesda on Jul 28, 2003 11:27:58 GMT -5
gene -- will you re-read what you wrote? i apologize as this will sound harsh -- but -- quit lying. the Rcc priests do NOT forgive sins -- they absolve as was told by Jesus in the Scriptures -- it's been gone over again and again -- JESUS is the ONLY one that forgives sins! I resent being called a liar when I've posted the truth. YOUR POPE SAYS THAT NO ONE CAN GO DIRECTLY TO GOD FOR FORGIVNESS. You should learn what your church professes before you call someone a liar. Now if this doesn't sit well with you, that's not my fault. 395. Catholic Church, Roman-Priesthood-Priest Held to Be Creator of theCreator Source: Alphonse -de Liguori, Dignity and Duties of the Priest; or, Selva (Brooklyn: Redemptorist Fathers, 1927), pp. 26, 27, 31-35. [p. 261 With regard to the power of priests over the real body of Jesus Christ, it is of faith that when they pronounce the words of consecration the Incarnate Word has obliged himself to obey and to come into their hands under the sacramental species.... We find that in obedience to the words of his priests--Hocest Corpus Meum [This is my body]- God himself descends on the altar, that he comes wherever they call him, and as often as they call him, and places [p. 271 himself in their hands, even though they should be his enemies.[/u] And after having come, he remains, entirely at their disposal; they move him as they please, from one place to another; they may, if they wish, shut him up in the tabernacle, or expose him on the altar, carry him outside the church; they if they choose, eat his flesh, and give Him for the food of others....[/b][/u] [ 31] Besides, the power of the priest surpkmtyolpes that of the Blessed Virgin Mary; for, although this divine mother can pray for us, and by her prayers can obtain whatever she wishes, yet cannot absolve a Christian from the smallest sin. . . .[/u] [P. 32] Thus the priest may, in a certain manner, be called the creator of his Creator[/u], since by saying the words consecration, he creates, as it were, Jesus in the sacrement, by giving Him a sacremental existence, and produces him as a victim to be offered to the Father.... [P. 331 "The power of the priest," says Bernardine of Sienna, "is the power of the divine person; for the transubstantiation of the bread requires as much power as the creation of the world." . . . [P. 34] "Let the priest," says St. Laurence Justinian, "approach the altar as another Christ." Accordino to St. Cyprian, a priest at the altar performs the office of Christ.... The priest holds the place of the Saviour himself, when, by saying "Ego te absolvo," he absolves from sin. This great power, which Jesus Christ has received from his eternal Father, he has communicated to his priests....[/u] [P. 35] The Jews justly said: Who can forgive sins but God alone? But what only God can do by his ornnipotence, the priest can also do by saying "Ego te absolvo a peccatis tuis" ["I absolve you from your sins"]. . .,. Cardinal Hugo represents the Lord addressing the following words to a Priest who absolves a sinner: "I have created heaven and earth, but I leave to you a better and nobler creation, make out of this soul that is in sin a new soul, that is, make out of a slave of Satan, that the soul is, a child of God." [/color]
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Post by RealistState on Jul 28, 2003 20:02:33 GMT -5
I resent being called a liar when I've posted the truth. YOUR POPE SAYS THAT NO ONE CAN GO DIRECTLY TO GOD FOR FORGIVNESS. You should learn what your church professes before you call someone a liar. Now if this doesn't sit well with you, that's not my fault. 395. Catholic Church, Roman-Priesthood-Priest Held to Be Creator of theCreator Source: Alphonse -de Liguori, Dignity and Duties of the Priest; or, Selva (Brooklyn: Redemptorist Fathers, 1927), pp. 26, 27, 31-35. That's a rather obscure publication you're quoting from, but I gather the point you're making is more about transubtiation rather than forgiveness. I don't think it really authoritative on the teaching of the Church. Be that as it may, you may wish to check with something more current regarding the official teaching regarding this matter. But you did say "...your Pope". Are you saying the current one or someone from the past said we cannot go directly to God. I'll reasearch that some since it appears you are quite convinced that Catholics are taught forgiveness comes from the priest, and not from God. May the Peace of the Lord be with you.
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Post by genesda on Jul 29, 2003 4:24:48 GMT -5
That's a rather obscure publication you're quoting from, but I gather the point you're making is more about transubtiation rather than forgiveness. I don't think it really authoritative on the teaching of the Church. Be that as it may, you may wish to check with something more current regarding the official teaching regarding this matter. But you did say "...your Pope". Are you saying the current one or someone from the past said we cannot go directly to God. I'll reasearch that some since it appears you are quite convinced that Catholics are taught forgiveness comes from the priest, and not from God. May the Peace of the Lord be with you. It was your current pope. It really shouldn't matter because there is a claim that the pope should be listened to as if God were speaking, so what difference does it make if it is this one or a past pope?[/color] The Los Angeles Times Wednesday, December 12,1984/Part No Forgivness 'Directly From God,' Pope says By DON A. SCHANCHE, Times Staff Writer VATICAN CITY- Rebutting a belief widely shared by Protestants and a growing number of Roman Catholics, Pope John Paul 11 on Tuesday dismissed the "widespread idea that one can obtain forgiveness directly from God" and exhorted Catholics to confess more often to their priests. I didn't post the whole article because there is a lot of boring stuff. The point is made above.
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Post by RealistState on Jul 29, 2003 4:36:33 GMT -5
It was your current pope. It really shouldn't matter because there is a claim that the pope should be listened to as if God were speaking, so what difference does it make if it is this one or a past pope? [/color] The Los Angeles Times Wednesday, December 12,1984/Part No Forgivness 'Directly From God,' Pope says By DON A. SCHANCHE, Times Staff Writer VATICAN CITY- Rebutting a belief widely shared by Protestants and a growing number of Roman Catholics, Pope John Paul 11 on Tuesday dismissed the "widespread idea that one can obtain forgiveness directly from God" and exhorted Catholics to confess more often to their priests. I didn't post the whole article because there is a lot of boring stuff. The point is made above.[/quote] No need to post the whole article, but a link to the source would be good. At least December of 1984 is good start for research as to when and where he made this alledged statement (which appears to me as a misquote by the LA Times writer). But we'll see. As far as this one or a past one, you must be referring to the doctrine of "ex cathera" which as you know only refers to morals of faith. Pretty much as when the Holy Spirit speaks to us all. PS: LA Times archives doesn't appear to go back that far...but I'll keep looking.
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Post by CatholicChristian on Jul 29, 2003 4:55:55 GMT -5
It was your current pope. It really shouldn't matter because there is a claim that the pope should be listened to as if God were speaking, so what difference does it make if it is this one or a past pope? [/color] The Los Angeles Times Wednesday, December 12,1984/Part No Forgivness 'Directly From God,' Pope says By DON A. SCHANCHE, Times Staff Writer VATICAN CITY- Rebutting a belief widely shared by Protestants and a growing number of Roman Catholics, Pope John Paul 11 on Tuesday dismissed the "widespread idea that one can obtain forgiveness directly from God" and exhorted Catholics to confess more often to their priests. I didn't post the whole article because there is a lot of boring stuff. The point is made above.[/quote] You quoted from a newspaper - The Los Angeles Times? Now, that would be a good source! I tend to believe half of what I read in newspapers. Your "quote" of a sentence would have possibly, and I stress possibly, been of more value if taken in context with the entire article. That is the problem with taking ONE sentence and focusing on it - you leave out the substance of what is being said. I could said, "In the beginning"...what does that mean? You have no idea how I'm going to finish that statement. God Bless!
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Post by genesda on Jul 29, 2003 5:06:28 GMT -5
You quoted from a newspaper - The Los Angeles Times? Now, that would be a good source! I tend to believe half of what I read in newspapers. Your "quote" of a sentence would have possibly, and I stress possibly, been of more value if taken in context with the entire article. That is the problem with taking ONE sentence and focusing on it - you leave out the substance of what is being said. I could said, "In the beginning"...what does that mean? You have no idea how I'm going to finish that statement. God Bless! The whole document is available and it says the same thing. It is called Reconcillation something or the other. The headline is an accurate reflection of what the pope said.
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Post by genesda on Jul 29, 2003 5:07:57 GMT -5
Did you read the rest of the post about the Greatest Commandment? God Bless! What is "the greatest commandment?" Please show how this would cancel any other commandment.
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Post by genesda on Jul 29, 2003 5:10:55 GMT -5
Actually I think alot of others misquote what the "rock" is supposed to be, but feel free to say it is th Catholics that got it wrong. And if this is the case, what does Luke 22:31-32 mean to you? And are you saying Our Lord is contradicitng himself? In Luke 22, Jesus warns Peter to be on guard against Satan. Then in Matthew 16 Jesus is saying that Peter is satan? Don't you think that Our Lord knows who Satan is? Don't you think He is referring to the temptation (such as those that were presented in the desert)? I certainly don't think Jesus was calling Peter satan. That would be a very odd interpreptation. I wonder if others think that is what this pkmtyolpage means. Also, in Luke 22:31-32, Jesus recognizes that Peter will fail Him, yet will do penance and be forgiven. Jesus was telling Peter that what he said was inspired by Satan, and what "pennance" did Peter "do"? You have taken a Roman catholic tradition of "pennance" and applied it to the bible.[/color]
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