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Post by semperfidelis on Sept 7, 2003 0:33:07 GMT -5
You're right, but the jews would be the ones building the temple, and obvioulsy, Revelation has nothing to do with their beliefs. Exactly, thankyou Trentroy. I am not sure why anyone would think that believers would need to perform animal sacrifices again in any situation.
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Post by semperfidelis on Sept 7, 2003 1:09:58 GMT -5
Parousia, the more you try to get your mind around this concept the more confused you become. It states in scripture that Satan is the Prince and Power of the air and he has control of much of this earth. Look around you today. What do you think is going on in society. I am not sure if you are naive or blind or both, or if you do not fully understand what Gods plan is for mankind. This not meant to be offensive, it is just blatantly obvious to most of us what is happening in the world and yet you fail to "see it".
To answer your questions specifically.
No, there is nothing that is above Christ in terms of power. However, that does not mean that Satan does not have some power and authority over certain people and or things within the earth. See scripture below.
Ephesians 2:1-3 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespkmtyolpes and sins, {2} in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience The Armor of God
10Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. 11Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. 12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. 14Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, 15and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. 16In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. 18And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints.
Notice. This evil has been defeated by Christ but Satan and the expelled demons still have control over some of the world. Christians are still persecuted, Spiritual warfare is still a very common thing, battles between Good and Evil take place on a daily basis. Some human beings are ensnared by the enemy and used for his causes.
Parousia, I agree with this. I have never said that evil had any control or power over followers of Christ. You seem to have a very good grip on the scriptures yet you seem to be having trouble discerning the reality of the situation of the world at this very moment.
Our souls are protected from evil and our physical bodies are as well unless God says otherwise.
Now, let me ask you a few question. Do you think we can do things that might open us up to attacks from the enemy?
Why are some Missionaries persecuted and killed for their faith. Obviously good people are not taking the lives of Christians, so what is causing that? Are they accidents?
Why are the ten commandments being removed from the supreme court and why is it against the law to pray to Jesus in cpkmtyollrooms every day?
When Jesus fasted why was Satan allowed to tempt him, of course he did not give in to it, but he was allowed to have access to the Son and to tempt him multiple times. Why was that allowed?
Why are family values declining? Why is starvation, war, famines, ###########, addictions, drug abuse, disease and other scourges and plagues allowed to run rampant throughout the world?
If you can comprehend these questions and then answer them perhaps you can understand my point. If you dont get it after this round I am not sure what to tell you. Perhaps some further study would allow you to understand.
gave us what? The defeat of evil and return of Christs physical kingdom where he rules the nations with a rod of Iron, the one that gives us the most peaceful and prosperous time the world has ever known. The time when Satan is bound in the pit for 1000 years and then thrown into the Lake of Fire.
The time when children can walk out and play with Lions and the wild beasts of the earth will become tame. Isaiah 11:6
Well, sorry Parousia but that time is not here. I sleep at night with my doors locked and I dont think the world that I am looking forward to when Christs kingdom comes is quite here yet.
Also, dont misunderstand me. I believe that through Christ we are completely victorious over evil. However not everyone believes and Satan can still tempt and cause problems, so we must continue to carry on and be lights in a dark world.
You mean absense of understanding on your part.
Again, this is your absense of understanding. At no time during the 1000 year reign will animal sacrifices be required. Where are you getting this stuff? !!!
When the temple is put up again it will be put up by the Jews. If believers attend the temple they will not be performing animal sacrifices they would be going for the tourist opportunity.
The Jewish people would be peforming the sacrifices during the tribulation period I believe.
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Post by larrygn on Sept 8, 2003 10:20:42 GMT -5
Semper: This was not a trick question, nor was it meant to imply anything other than what was stated. God acts in specific manner, so you are implying by his overt favoritism of Isreal, that they can do what others can not and be saved. I need to know if that is your position, or the position of any denomination. Just for the heck of it, what is Preterism? I am posting some other questions on new sites, not to confuse these running topics. Yours in the Ever Living Christ, Larry
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Post by semperfidelis on Sept 8, 2003 12:45:34 GMT -5
Semper: This was not a trick question, nor was it meant to imply anything other than what was stated. God acts in specific manner, so you are implying by his overt favoritism of Isreal, that they can do what others can not and be saved. I need to know if that is your position, or the position of any denomination. Just for the heck of it, what is Preterism? I am posting some other questions on new sites, not to confuse these running topics. Yours in the Ever Living Christ, Larry Larry, you are Preterist even though you may not know what that means. I am a Premillenial Futurist, it has to do with the way you interprete scripture and time texts in the bible. For example, you probably believe there is much significance around the destruction of the temple in 70 AD and much scripture revolves around that, specifically much of Matthew 24 and Daniel 9 :27 and the seventy weeks. I believe that God favors Israel and that he will give them many chances to accept Christ and I believe in the end that much of the nation will see Christ as the Messiah. How can they not, once the tribulation period begins many people that are left behind after the rapture will quickly come to know the Lord. They are still waiting on the Messiah to come back and when the judgements of Revelation begin it will be hard not to see that Christ is the true Messiah. Now, I believe the question was - what happens to Jews that are killed before the come to know Christ. I am not sure, that is why I said perhaps you should ask God. After all, he is the one that judges according to his will and he does not answer to any human. According to the word we must all accept Christ to be saved. According the same word Israel is a favored nation. So I am not sure. Again, this is a question for the creator not the created.
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Post by kingsdaughter on Sept 8, 2003 16:59:45 GMT -5
Hi Pam, Then you believe this scripture has already been fulfilled? Zechariah 14:16-21 16 And it shall come to pkmtyolp that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain. 18 If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the Lord strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 20 In that day "HOLINESS TO THE LORD" shall be engraved on the bells of the horses. The pots in the Lord's house shall be like the bowls before the altar. 21 Yes, every pot in Jerusalem and Judah shall be holiness to the Lord of hosts. Everyone who sacrifices shall come and take them and cook in them. In that day there shall no longer be a Canaanite in the house of the Lord of hosts.* If sacrifices are done away with, why are these people "Sarcificing" in the "millennial temple"? And why is Jesus requiring that these people keep the OT feast of tabernacles? Wasn't His sacrifice on the cross sufficiant? Parousia70, this verse is not refering to a blood offering, if you notice the verses prior to this are talking about the pots of the temple being holy, but now all pots will be Holy even the bridles of the horses are Holy. In other words every thing in the New Jeruselum is holy and belongs to the Lord and is to be offered for His use. Or sacrificed for the cause Of celebrating the Feast of Tabernacle, because Jesus has returned to claim his City and people. Everyone at this time will know the He is Lord and should be living their life ( as we should today ) as a sacrifice to God. YSIC Pam
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Post by larrygn on Sept 9, 2003 9:37:31 GMT -5
semper: I don't belioeve that there is anything important about the temple being destroyed in 70 A.D., that is why I don't know what a Preterist is, it might help if you define both positions for those of us less knowledgeable, and then if others want to join, maybe we can find out which is acceptable in their denominations, it might really help out some of the understanding. Yours in the Ever Living Christ, Larry
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Post by semperfidelis on Nov 3, 2003 10:44:13 GMT -5
semper: I don't belioeve that there is anything important about the temple being destroyed in 70 A.D., that is why I don't know what a Preterist is, it might help if you define both positions for those of us less knowledgeable, and then if others want to join, maybe we can find out which is acceptable in their denominations, it might really help out some of the understanding. Yours in the Ever Living Christ, Larry There is much signifcance in the destruction of the temple in 70 AD. This was judgement upon the Jews for the rejection of the Messiah and the blood spilled of Holy Men before 70 AD. You can see Jesus prophecy of this at the end of Matthew 23. But, this event has little to do with Christs return that is prophecied in Revelation 19:11, Zechariah 14, Daniel 2 and Matthew 24. The problem that people (mainly Preterists) run into is that they believe that many of the future prophecies of the bible revolve around the destruction of the temple. This causes timelines and interpretation of scripture to get twisted around. If you study the Preterist viewpoint you will find that they interprete scripture literally until they need to make a prophecy fit into a first century time frame then they move to a figurative translation. This is the only way Preterists can make the scripture fit into their timeframes. This is an inconsistent way of interpreting scripture and is a warning sign in my mind that it is an incorrect method of interpretation. For example, Preterists interprete the destruction of the temple literally, but they do not interprete Christs return literally. Since Christ did not return after the destruction of the temple Preterists must do this to support their time text.
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Post by larrygn on Nov 3, 2003 10:52:51 GMT -5
Semper: Well, I would take the position that the OT prophesies have no impact on the NT after the death of the Chrsit, so there we would have problems even getting on common ground for a debate, Yours in the Ever Living Christ, Larry
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Post by semperfidelis on Nov 4, 2003 9:59:58 GMT -5
Semper: Well, I would take the position that the OT prophesies have no impact on the NT after the death of the Chrsit, so there we would have problems even getting on common ground for a debate, Yours in the Ever Living Christ, Larry Larry, that makes absolutely no sense. If you believe in the prophecies surrounding the life, death and resurrection then you must believe in the second coming prophecies. Why would one set be true and not the other? I think this is just another method of taking away from the truth the Word of God is trying to convey. No where in the bible does it say that any prophecy is to die with Christ that points to a second coming. This is a man made thing, not a Word of God thing. If the prophecies in the Old Testament speak of things that have not come to pkmtyolp then they are future prophecies.
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