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Post by genesda on Oct 24, 2003 11:23:14 GMT -5
Semper, Hi again I have a quick question. This man of lawlessness sets himself up in God's temple... Is that the Physical temple in Jerusalem or our bodies which are temples? And if you say physical temple in Jerusalem... There currently isn't one. Where is the scripture to support one being built again after the time of the disciples? Thanks.. The man of sin is already in the temple (church) in Rome. It is the pope. There will be no temple in Jerusalem. That isn't scriptural. There will be no restarting of the animal sacrifice and no conversion of Israel to Christianity. These are all lies invented by the futurist methiod of prophetic interpretation invented by the Jesuits of Rome.
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Post by genesda on Oct 24, 2003 11:26:10 GMT -5
I would strongly debate the point that the Jewish people would know correctly from which tribe they came, with a few exceptions of Levi. I believe that you place too much empahsis on Isreal, she is the unredeemed, who failed to keep her oath to God, and failed to gain the lands promised, and when given a final chance, she threw that alway also, and now the true church of the Living God ( known to us as the composite members of Christiandom ) are the heirs. We are now to do the mission given us by the Christ, but it is from the New Jeruselem, across the gpkmtyolly sea, not from old Isreal. Larry I agree with you Larry. Literal Israel is nothing to the future prophecies.
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Post by genesda on Oct 24, 2003 11:28:19 GMT -5
The Abomination of Desolation Something I haven't heard mentioned as a possibality for the AoD: I can think of no greater abomination than the possibality of a third temple being built and restarting the "daily sacrafice" as this would be the ulitmate sin before God, the total rejection of Christ! Study the abomination of desolation from the scriptures instead of istening to all of these soothsayers. The abomination is Sunday Sacredness.
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Post by genesda on Oct 24, 2003 11:30:58 GMT -5
Actually, I think the beast may not be an Iraqi, he may have taken power in Iraq, or conquered Iraq, and no, I'm not saying it's Bush. The whole Iraq thing is not over yet, I'm waiting to see who takes power over there when the U.S. leaves. Just more conjecture, but we'll know when the AC is in power, I don't think he'll fool many christians. LOL!! You've already been fooled. The antiChrist is the Roman papacy and this can be proved true!!
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Post by genesda on Oct 24, 2003 11:35:14 GMT -5
Sounds like the beast to me. I have an idea that may sound off the wall, but here goes. Please remember this is not my theory, it's just an idea that's been rolling around in my head. In Daniel (I'm not at home so can't do quotes right now), it describes the 4 beasts (countries), and the 4th beast is described as made of iron, eating everything in it's path, w/10 horns( the 4th beast breaks up into 10 nations of Europe), the 11th being the antichrist (maybe)9 yes], then the 11th gets rid of 3 of the 10.[ has happened already] I am really bad with geography, and haven't had time to look at a map, but the 4th beast reminds me of Islam.( no! Roman Empire) I know many think this will be the E.U., but for some reason it reminds me of the nations of islam, possibly because they are going thru Africa and killing everyone in their path, especially christians. They are taking over Africa, and they won't stop there. I've been thinking that all these muslim countries may form a coalition, appoint someone as their head (11th horn), that 3 of these countries will oppose the 11th horn, and get demolished. Already happened. The Vandels, Ostrogoths and the Visigoths were all destroyed as the papacy came to power in 538 a.d.Okay, go ahead, I know it's kinda far fetched, but wanted someone else to tell me I'm nuts.
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Post by Cohdra on Oct 24, 2003 11:57:02 GMT -5
I still believe that the dome of the rock is a good candidate for the "abomination". I believe that the creation of Islam was a direct attack against God, Judaism, and Christianity. I don't think it's a coincidence that Satan selected that spot for Islam to hold sacred. He knows how much conflict it causes.
God bless
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Post by Stat23MJ on Nov 5, 2003 22:59:39 GMT -5
Genesda, the Abomination of Desolation is where the future Antichrist goes into the future Temple in Jerusalem and declares himself God. 2 Thess 2:4 attests to this. The problem with some Protestants (I'm one also) that they put more stock in the writers of the Reformation than the writers of the Bible. Yes Luther and others called the Pope the "Antichrist" but even John the Apostle said that many Antichrists have appeared and will appear. This doesn't mean that the future Antichrist, who is the Beast from the Sea, the Son of Perdition, the Little Horn, the King of Great Countenance, and the Prince to Come will be the Pope. First Daniel and Revelation say that this future ruler will worship Satan and the last I heard the Pope, even though believes in many things contrary to Christianity like worshipping Mary, believes in Jesus Christ as God in the flesh and His Death and Resurrection. I believe the Pope will be part of the Harlot of Revelation 17 who will control the AC until the 10 kings dispose of her.
To everyone else, how can the Dome of the Rock be defiled in the AoD when its existence on the Temple Mount is already an abomination. Also sacrfices continued when Jesus died and resurrected and Jewish Christians to my knowledge worshipped at the Temple. So a future Temple with renewed sacrifices isn't farfetched.
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Post by semperfidelis on Nov 6, 2003 9:38:39 GMT -5
I still believe that the dome of the rock is a good candidate for the "abomination". I believe that the creation of Islam was a direct attack against God, Judaism, and Christianity. I don't think it's a coincidence that Satan selected that spot for Islam to hold sacred. He knows how much conflict it causes. God bless The dome is a form of desecration. But, there are two defining factors that make the AoD in Daniel signifcant. First off it is carried out by a human 2 thess 2 and Daniel 9:27. I believe that it will also involve some sort of unclean sacrifice and possibly setting up an image to be worshiped. Also it states that at the end the desecrator will be destroyed, this points to a human being or the Man of Lawlessness that is predicted throughout Daniel. Revelation and 2 Thess 2. Also the timeframes for the specific prophecy can be put sometime in the future. Obviously no one has stood in the temple and declared themselves to be God. Some could argue that Antiochus did this but if you match his actions with other prophecies that must harmonize he does not fit the bill. For example, he did not set up an image that could breathe and talk and his false prophet did not force the world to worship the image. They certainly did not force everyone to take the mark or face persecution. This is a future event, so the AoD must be future in the context of certain prophecies. Also if you read Daniel 12 you can see the subtext of the verses is started by "The End Times" and a prophecy of the Archangel Michael rising up to protect his people. I believe this can be correlated with the protection of Israel and other Saints during the tribulation period when armies will be gathered against it under the direction of the Beast or Antichrist. Notice at the end of Daniel 12 what is says about the Abomination of Desolation. 11 "From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days. 12 Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days. 13 "As for you, go your way till the end. You will rest, and then at the end of the days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance." If you believe that the tribulation period is 7 years in length and that a human will carry out the AoD it would be unlikely that the dome of the rock is the AoD mentioned in Daniel and 2 Thess 2.
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Post by semperfidelis on Nov 6, 2003 17:00:14 GMT -5
I agree with you Larry. Literal Israel is nothing to the future prophecies. Its doesnt? Boy the bible sure seems to differ with both you and Larry on this. Dont take my word for it. All you have to do is read the little apocalypse of Zechariah 12-14 and Revelation to see that Israel has everything to do with future events.
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Post by semperfidelis on Nov 10, 2003 10:17:41 GMT -5
Semper, Hi again I have a quick question. This man of lawlessness sets himself up in God's temple... Is that the Physical temple in Jerusalem or our bodies which are temples? And if you say physical temple in Jerusalem... There currently isn't one. Where is the scripture to support one being built again after the time of the disciples? Thanks.. The man of sin is already in the temple (church) in Rome. It is the pope. There will be no temple in Jerusalem. That isn't scriptural. There will be no restarting of the animal sacrifice and no conversion of Israel to Christianity. These are all lies invented by the futurist methiod of prophetic interpretation invented by the Jesuits of Rome.Genesda, lets go to Gods word for insight on this. Everything I see in the bible points to the Beast or Antichrist being human. If you look at scripture you can see that is he is referred to as He, Him and takes on human characertistics. We can also see in Revelation 13 that an image is set up that is given breath and can talk. Obviously this has to be an image of a human, can a system talk or breath? In Revelation 19 we see that the Beast and False Prophet are captured and thrown into the Lake of Fire. This also holds truth that the two evil rulers are humans. We can also see in Revelation 20 that after Satan is loosed from the abyss that he is thrown into the Lake of Fire where the Beast and False Prophet are and have been for over 1000 years. This tells me that they have eternal souls and are human beings that are given great power from the Dragon or Satan. I believe the temple will be rebuilt again. Some people argue against it but I believe this is the same concept as Israel being regathered. You probably would have been one of the ones that stood up before 1948 and said that there was no way Israel was going to be a nation again because scripture did not support it. Well we can all see plainly now that scripture was right on the money and that Israel was regathered. If you read Zechariah 14 you will begin to understand that Scholars were able to say with confidence that Israel was going to be regathered because of the promises in prophecy. The same holds true for the temple, even though it does not say that it will be rebuilt, it states that it will be desecrated. This is the same concept as Israel becoming a nation again. It did not say in the bible that Israel would become a nation again, but it had many prophecies dealing with what seemed to be a gathered people of Israel, so scholars assumed that it would be regathered. They were right then, and they are right now. The tension over the temple mount area is increasing as the years go by and it is obvious that it will be the cause of great strife between Jews, Christians and Muslims in the coming years. I can see that with my own eyes without even reading scripture. I believe Daniel 9:27 that speaks of the abomination of desolation also found in Matthew 24 shows us that there will be a future desecration of the temple in Jerusalem. I believe that this will happen in a future temple that is rebuilt by the nation of Israel and desecrated by the Antichrist exactly 3.5 years into the final week or the tribulation period. The Abomination of Desolation spoken of in Matthew 24 is describing a future time, not something that took place in 70 AD. So that means it is a future occurence. I believe this can be correlated with 2 Thessalonians 2 when the Man of Lawlessness stands in the temple and proclaims himself to be God. In addition to that when the two witnesses appear in Jerusalem it mentions the temple standing close to where they preach. This can be found in Revelation 11. Also, when you say that Israel will not be converted back to Christanity you are disputing the word of God. In Matthew 23 Jesus himself states that he will not return until Israel repents and accepts. Matthew 23:37"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing. 38Look, your house is left to you desolate. 39For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.'[4] " We can also see the Lord favoring Israel in Zechariah 14 when he steps in to fight for Israel during the tribulation period. In Zechariah 13 we can see Israels conversion and repentance and then the Lord stepping in to protect and fight for Israel. When this happens Israels eyes will be opened to the Messiah and at that moment they will understand what has happened and they will mourn for Christ, for the rejection. Christ will open his arms and accept them as believers and this will bring about his return to earth. Zechariah 13:1 "On that day a fountain will be opened to the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, to cleanse them from sin and impurity. 2 "On that day, I will banish the names of the idols from the land, and they will be remembered no more," declares the LORD Almighty. "I will remove both the prophets and the spirit of impurity from the land.
Zechariah 14:3 Then the LORD will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights in the day of battle. 4 On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south. 5 You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake [1] in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with him. 6 On that day there will be no light, no cold or frost. 7 It will be a unique day, without daytime or nighttime-a day known to the LORD . When evening comes, there will be light. 8 On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half to the eastern sea [2] and half to the western sea, [3] in summer and in winter. 9 The LORD will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one LORD , and his name the only name. This can also be correlated on a timeline in Matthew 24 Matthew24:
We see here a prophecy of Christ sending his angels to gather Israel to protect them.
Matthew24:30"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
Notice the wording in Matthew 24 that this happens immediately after the distress of those days set off by the Abomination of Desolation or Desecration of the Temple, mentioned by Daniel the Prophet.
Also, you can call this what you want. I dont get much into titles. You call it jesuit futurism, I call it the truth of the Word of God. I contend that what your teaching is false because you are disregarding obvious scripture.
Let me ask you this, do you really think Satan would allow the worship that he desires to go to many people or through a system. If you study what the entire war and his rebellion is about you will see that he desires the worship himself, he is to selfish to share it with others. I believe that he will also emmulate God and Christ and try to do it better. He will come up with this twisted Father, Son and Holy Spirit copy and he will even try to resurrect himself. We can see this in Revelation 13, this will also be another attempt to out perform Christ, in which he will fail miserably.
You do not have to be a scholar to figure this out.
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Post by Cohdra on Nov 12, 2003 11:16:33 GMT -5
Semper, Hi again I have a quick question. This man of lawlessness sets himself up in God's temple... Is that the Physical temple in Jerusalem or our bodies which are temples? And if you say physical temple in Jerusalem... There currently isn't one. Where is the scripture to support one being built again after the time of the disciples? Thanks.. The man of sin is already in the temple (church) in Rome. It is the pope. There will be no temple in Jerusalem. That isn't scriptural. There will be no restarting of the animal sacrifice and no conversion of Israel to Christianity. These are all lies invented by the futurist methiod of prophetic interpretation invented by the Jesuits of Rome.Interesting, you equate the Church with Rome; Which would mean that The RCC is the true Church; Following this logic, Satan will never prevail against the one, true Church. God bless
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