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Post by keikikoka on Jan 10, 2005 16:38:53 GMT -5
I'm still a tad confused as to how one can recieve the Mark of the Beast before the beast has come on the scene...
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Post by PhilipDC78 on Jan 10, 2005 17:22:21 GMT -5
I'm still a tad confused as to how one can recieve the Mark of the Beast before the beast has come on the scene... same confusion here.
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Post by Shirley on Jan 10, 2005 18:43:44 GMT -5
My very "tough love" answer to the question, "Why me?" is this.... Why NOT you? Romans 3: 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. I suspect this is what SJudy is referring to with her observation that some responses are downright mean, and on the surface, I'm sure it looks coldhearted. Blessings! LJ P.S., What I hope is that this tragedy reminds the evangelical-minded of us that life is fragile and uncertain, and that we get a stronger sense of urgency regarding our evangelism to the unsaved. Actually, what I was referring to was a comment made in poor taste..about what happened to people who went to the beach to worship the moon and look what happened to them...I mean, come on..so many people died..it would be like.."Look at those people who went to work in those tall buildings.." I find it tasteless..tacky..uncompkmtyolpionate..think about it..this is a person who fully believes that those who don't believe in Christ are going to hell when they died..therefore, they fully believe those people are now in hell..and it has no effect? ??
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Post by AlphaOmega on Jan 11, 2005 7:07:21 GMT -5
I'm still a tad confused as to how one can recieve the Mark of the Beast before the beast has come on the scene... And I'm confused about why you have locked the latest thread that I started. I started it because someone wasn't getting the message that I no longer wished to discuss evolution with him. I had to go "on the record" about it to everyone. I wished I didn't have to. Happy New Year, Christian.
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Post by AlphaOmega on Jan 11, 2005 7:09:57 GMT -5
Keik'
I've got a question for you: Who is the god of this World?
Christian.
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Post by AlphaOmega on Jan 11, 2005 8:04:17 GMT -5
Taken at its face value, your statement says that whether or not we get to Heaven depends on us, or on good timing. Doesn't that fly in the face of what the Bible tells us about Grace, about Jesus's atoning death and resurrection? LJ Is there some notion that, while a person is Christian, he may still in some way be unworthy of escaping the Trib? Andy None of us are truly worthy because "all have sinned".LJ CONTEXT!! and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.LJ So, then, are we to take the Lord's saving grace for granted, and carry on sinning just like before because we are freer than the unbelievers to sin and not reap the consequences? Romans ch.11, vv.11-24: Ingrafted Branches 11Again I ask: Did they [the Jews] stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their fullness bring! 13I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I make much of my ministry 14in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. 15For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches.
17If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.
22Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!That's a warning to all of us. The bridegroom, who is Christ, is waiting to receive His beautiful bride, the Church, who has prepared herself for Him - that's mentioned towards the end of the Book of Revelation. He's not going to marry a sin-ridden, ugly, old hag, who sees nothing wrong with behaving in the same way that this World behaves, and who has no objection to such things as abortion and gay "marriage". Yes, He's looking at our hearts, and the motives behind everything we say, think, and do. Blessings, Christian.
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Post by SonWorshiper on Jan 11, 2005 12:09:39 GMT -5
TD: We can prepare ourselves and help others to prepare, but looking for it is really a waste of time.
Me: Looking for it a waste of time? Not according to God's Word:
"Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ..." (Titus 2:13).
TD: Sky -- still not falling.
Me: Why do you look at Christ's return as though it is comparable to a "sky is falling" type of occurance. While you may look at Christ's return with a "sky is falling" mentality, Spirit-filled believers view it in a much more positive light, and do so with great anticipation and excitement.
What we're discussing here is Christ's return, something a true believer looks upon with great anticipation and excitement. Christ's return is hardly comparable to a "sky is falling" mentality, unless of course, all your hopes and dreams are tied to this world and this life, and then I could definitely see how Christ's return could be viewed in such a negative manner comparable to a falling sky.
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Post by SonWorshiper on Jan 11, 2005 12:22:49 GMT -5
stevec: Back to the OP, I'm straddling the fence on this one (if you couldn't already tell). We all know Jesus' warning on the issue but we seem to be forgetting one very important part of what He said. As many have pointed out, these occurrences are (debatably) not occurring any more frequently than they always have. On the other hand, we are forgetting the role pkmtyolm communication plays in this. Jesus said, "You will hear of war and rumors of wars, etc." (emphasis added). In past times these things were localized events the news of which rarely went past the next village. Even when they did it was weeks or months afterward. Today these things are broadcast either live or moments later via satellite or the Internet. With today's methods of pkmtyolm communication the entire world is more aware of these happenings and that awareness occurs much more quickly.
So, even though they may not be happening any more frequently than in the past, we are hearing more about them today. As Jesus said, "You will hear..."
Me: I was thinking the same thing. In Matthew 24:33, The Lord also said, "So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things..."
We're definitely seeing and hearing about these things in ways no other generation has thanks to TV, radio, newspapers, internet, etc.
I think there could be something to this.
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Post by Traffic Demon on Jan 11, 2005 15:39:04 GMT -5
SonWorshiper - "Why do you look at Christ's return as though it is comparable to a 'sky is falling' type of occurance."
Because His imminent return has been has been proclaimed for centuries by people who have had no more credible basis for doing so than you have.
"unless of course, all your hopes and dreams are tied to this world and this life, and then I could definitely see how Christ's return could be viewed in such a negative manner comparable to a falling sky."
Much as you would like to imply that they are , they're not.
--Traffic X Strong like bull
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Post by SonWorshiper on Jan 11, 2005 16:44:39 GMT -5
TD -- I agree with you that His return is imminent. Therefore, past generations, as well as this one, have had quite a credible basis for declaring His possible return, since, ahem, His return is (and always has been) imminent.
But, that still doesn't answer my question: Why do you equate the glorious appearing of Christ and our blessed hope with a falling sky, as though it's something of a negative nature? It's only negative if you aren't ready for it.
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Post by PhilipDC78 on Jan 11, 2005 17:18:58 GMT -5
TD -- I agree with you that His return is imminent. Therefore, past generations, as well as this one, have had quite a credible basis for declaring His possible return, since, ahem, His return is (and always has been) imminent. But, that still doesn't answer my question: Why do you equate the glorious appearing of Christ and our blessed hope with a falling sky, as though it's something of a negative nature? It's only negative if you aren't ready for it. I think what he was trying to say, and Traff please correct me if I am wrong, is that there really isn't much use to getting freaked out, or excited, or hysterical about Christ's imminent return. Yes, when He does return, it will be wonderful and awesome, but some people get in such a frenzy over the fact that Christ is returning that they can't do the things that Christ has them on the earth to do.
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Post by keikikoka on Jan 11, 2005 18:04:16 GMT -5
1) You didn't "have to go on the record" about it to everyone. I'm quite sure that everyone wasn't interested. 2)If your only problem with a member is that he keeps replying to you, then there is a simple method to make it stop. Stop replying back 3)If you have a real problem with a member, either address the member or a moderator in a private message. Thank ya' kindly ' Now, would you mind telling me how you believe that one can have the Mark of the Beast, when the beast doesn't exist (yet)
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Post by SonWorshiper on Jan 11, 2005 18:46:42 GMT -5
Phillip -- But TD has repeated used the phrase "the sky is not falling" in reference to our discussions about The Return of Christ. I'm just curious why a Christian would associate The Blessed Hope with a "sky is falling" mentality. The only way Christ's return could be perceived as "the sky is falling" is if one is not ready for it.
And I don't know of anyone here who has even remotely given the impression that they are in a frenzy, or hysterical about what is happening in the world, or in anticipation of Christ's return, so I don't see how that explanation for TD's words has much credence to it either.
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Post by k8reader on Jan 11, 2005 19:34:05 GMT -5
I've been thinking of this lately. When will Christ return and how will we know it is coming soon?
Jesus tells us of the signs of the coming of the end of the age in Matthew 24: 3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”
4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Christ, and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.
9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel–let the reader understand– 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the roof of his house go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get his cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now–and never to be equaled again. 22 If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect–if that were possible. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.
26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the desert,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carpkmtyolc, there the vultures will gather.
29 “Immediately after the distress of those days “ ‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, (I had a dream that this happened! I'll never forget it as long as I live. I was laying in bed, and for some reason could see the sky. Suddenly all of the stars converged to a point. I remember saying out loud, oh, this is it! The starangest part of the whole thing was that I dreamed that the stars converged and I accociated it with Christ's return because I know stars don't behave that way. Later, I saw this above line!) and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
30 “At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[d]is near, right at the door. 34 I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pkmtyolp away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pkmtyolp away, but my words will never pkmtyolp away.
Jesus also tells us that we will not know the "hour" (Matt. 24:36) He gives us signs, but not the day or hour. Jesus told His disciples that He was returning soon. Most of them seemed to believe that it would be in their lifetimes. With the persecution of the Christians by Nero, many of the signs Jesus talked about were there. Again with the rise of Hitler, all the signs were there! How can we know which signs really point to the coming return of our Lord? I don't know that we can. He describes His return as coming like a thief in the night, in a twinkling, very unexpected. I keep those things in mind, but I look all around and see the signs. They are every where. I am even guilty of looking up in the sky for the sign of the Son of Man! My feelings that Christ's return was coming soon were a result of my born-again experience. When I surrendered my life to Christ, my eyes were open. I saw sin as sin, when before I hadn't. The world looked diferent to me. What was and was not important, changed for me. And with all of that, I thought, things are so bad, Jesus MUST be returning soon! I wonder if the feeling that He is coming any day comes from a new view of the world that believers didn't have before they knew Christ? Certainly, many have incorrectly predicted our Lord's return, and continue to do so. I look forward to that day with great anticipation and longing. In the mean time, I believe the Lord when He said no one knows the day or the hour. He has mapped out my days for me since before I was born, so I don't worry too much about what will come of me or the world.
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Post by Traffic Demon on Jan 11, 2005 23:30:25 GMT -5
PhilipDC78 - Thanks for summing that up.
SonWorshiper - "But TD has repeated used the phrase "the sky is not falling" in reference to our discussions about The Return of Christ."
Only in reference to the event as something that isn't happening right now, and in all likelihood, won't be happening any time soon. Sorry if you hadn't picked that up yet.
--Strong Traf We are not the Huns
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