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Post by LauraJean on Aug 11, 2004 9:43:53 GMT -5
THANK YOU!! But wouldn't a good leader LEAD the people to understand his thinking and thus embrace it? It seems to me what you have descirbed is a bad leader; one who has beliefs for which he is unwilling to fight. Frankly, that's what I liked about W's approach to the abortion issue; "We should lead the country to a point where abortion isn't necessary." In other words, bring Americans around to a morality which does not result in unwanted babies and abortion will no longer be an issue. And if you think this is a "repressed" approach to sexuality, consider the societies across time who have totally "unrepressed" sexuality and see how advanced --Socailly, economically, technologically-- they are/were. Looking forward to your reply. Blessings, LJ |
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Post by MorningStar on Aug 11, 2004 9:59:00 GMT -5
In this case, I think I agree that it is a personal choice to be left up to the citizen, not something that the government should step in and condem. A good leader (politically at least) understands that there are things the government should be involved in, and then there are things that should be left up to the individual. Right now, the government already intrudes into our lives way to far for my liking.
That being said, it seems to me that in this case, Kerry things it is more important for an individual to have a choice rather than being told what to do by a big government. Which, to me, is kind of uncharacteristic when it comes to Democrats, but hey, it happens.
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Post by LauraJean on Aug 11, 2004 11:19:34 GMT -5
In this case, I think I agree that it is a personal choice to be left up to the citizen, not something that the government should step in and condem. What if it is my personal belief that my ugly neighbor needs killing, and I do it? Or what if my personal belief is that my aunt, who is slowing down would be better off dead? Or if it is my personal belief that it is okay to embezzle from my employer? Or if it is my personal belief that I should help myself to my employees' retirements? Sorry, the "personal belief" logic doesn't work. Life is either worthy of defending or it isn't. You KNOW you will find no argument on this from me! However, don't forget the old addage: "Your right to swing your fist ends before it hits my nose." Some things need legal protection. You know as well as anyone here that I am loathe to support anything resembling the "nanny state" but opposing legalized abortion --and supporting legislation to end it-- doesn't even come close. LOL, like I said before, can you say, "pandering?"  Blessings, LJ |
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Post by MorningStar on Aug 11, 2004 11:46:08 GMT -5
What if it is my personal belief that my ugly neighbor needs killing, and I do it? Or what if my personal belief is that my aunt, who is slowing down would be better off dead? Or if it is my personal belief that it is okay to embezzle from my employer? Or if it is my personal belief that I should help myself to my employees' retirements? Sorry, the "personal belief" logic doesn't work. Life is either worthy of defending or it isn't. What about the personal belief that life doesn't begin at conception? warning - random brainstorming: government shouldn't get this far into our lives, yet we need some protection - we're protected (in a way) against being murdered, so shouldn't the government protect babies against murder? - not everyone believes its murder or that its anything more than just a biological thing rather than a child (comparision to an organ?) ........ murder - exclude anything but parental murder (since everything else is an offense against another) - if a parent may abort their baby, should they be able to kill their child after birth? - is the child property of the parent? if yes, to what extent? and what about euthenasia? - why not put someone to 'sleep' if they request it? when does it become a request versus being coerced? (heh - this is why I'm looking into lawschools) Made me think of something else - those who believe in reincarnation (and don't let me speak for all ) may believe that being aborted is just karma coming back to get you, which actually would be more compkmtyolpionate than sticking you in another life of misery, but I think this discussion is way beyond the scope of this board. |
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Post by marysia on Aug 11, 2004 12:03:54 GMT -5
i think questions like the above are very telling of "today". may i say, i wish i lived yesterday. yesterday when your elders were treated with repsect and cared for - not tossed aside after their moeny is taken. when children were a blessing, when women braged about their children and the accomplishments, not seen as a obligation and shuffled off to sit in front of the TV or given to a care giver.
when getting pregnant was a delight shared between youa dn your spouse - not something you needed to take onto a talk show and after testing 7 men - still not know who the father of your child is!
when the media & government did stay out your bedroom but it's because you didn't invite them in in the first place.
i see these talk shows and think - how has it come to this?! how can people be proud of how many different people & species they have had sex with? gracious - there are so many different topics.
IMHO, i am thankful for a president that has moral values. i am not foolish enough to think the president can snap his fingers and change things, but i'm thankful he's there to at least try, push and lead.
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Post by MorningStar on Aug 11, 2004 12:32:12 GMT -5
Yeah, there are tons of things I like better about 'yesterday', but today has shown lots of improvements - civil rights movement, feminist movement, better technology, better health care, people are more global, communication, etc..
Things are good, things are bad. Yesterday and today.
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Post by heathen76 on Aug 11, 2004 16:09:12 GMT -5
i think questions like the above are very telling of "today". may i say, i wish i lived yesterday. yesterday when your elders were treated with repsect and cared for - not tossed aside after their moeny is taken. when children were a blessing, when women braged about their children and the accomplishments, not seen as a obligation and shuffled off to sit in front of the TV or given to a care giver. when getting pregnant was a delight shared between youa dn your spouse - not something you needed to take onto a talk show and after testing 7 men - still not know who the father of your child is! when the media & government did stay out your bedroom but it's because you didn't invite them in in the first place. i see these talk shows and think - how has it come to this?! how can people be proud of how many different people & species they have had sex with? gracious - there are so many different topics. IMHO, i am thankful for a president that has moral values. i am not foolish enough to think the president can snap his fingers and change things, but i'm thankful he's there to at least try, push and lead. Yes, yesterday. When you could- 1.) Treat women, blacks, jews, gays, and the handicapped like second-cpkmtyoll citizens or even punching bags. Bring back the lynchings, beatings, and behind-closed-doors-slapping-the-wife-around-because-she-burned-the-pot roast fun! Bring back the days of the glorious WASP! 2.) Deny others equal rights based solely on the color of their skin, or their religion, or their gender. Man, I sure miss the mainstream acceptability of bigotry. 3.) Accept blindly (and without question) what your government was telling you. Those were the days! 4.) Ignore suffering of "other" people in "other" countries because, let's face it, we're Americans and we're the best. 5.) Ignore the environment. 6.) Enjoy the Cold War and the threat of death from above at any time. 7.) Worry about the "Red" threat and actually put on witch trials to ferret out the non-threat of people actually thinking for themselves. 8.) Remain ignorant of the fact that most of what goes on "today" went on "yesterday", although back then it was more hidden, and thus harder to confront and change. |
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Post by marysia on Aug 12, 2004 11:10:11 GMT -5
1,2, & 3 are still happening today - however under different disguises. Thank God not as violently as the past, but they are not gone. Look at the people that are blindly listening to various politicians who tell you this or that but their records show otherwise. people are voting for this party of that - because of their parents or some loyality to a party that is nothing as it once was. hate crimes are very widespread today as well.
4 -- i'm very confused - when have we ingored the suffering other countries. we have always gone to the aid of others -- look at France for one.
5 -- and today we're not -- how many new subdivisions have gone up in your area? are they fighting to keep at least one tree in each yard?! 30 years ago alone, the city would plant trees for free if you requested. they didn't destroy land for strip malls. people had one car in the family for a family of 5 - they walked, they rode bikes -- now we are hogs of the natural resources.
6 -- and we are not threatened now?
i'm sorry you misunderstood my comment. your initial comment was about murdering children/abortion and such. when it comes to morals and appreciating family - i believe that yesterday held more firm in family and self respect than today. yes there is good and bad then and now. yes there were ugly people back then who destroyed many but i still wish some of the higher moral ground was still around.
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