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Post by Traffic Demon on Oct 13, 2004 18:45:12 GMT -5
Protestant - "'Protestant comes in with his heretical hate messages that all Roman Catholics are the spawn of satan'
<Edited by AuntRonda>
***Quote edited to remove name calling.***
I have never said that ever."
I believe he was paraphrasing.
--DX TD Oh, you didn't know?
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Post by TarueBeliever on Oct 13, 2004 20:26:52 GMT -5
Ok, lets. I used to go to a local Southern Baptist Church because my parents brought me up in the Southern Baptist denomination. As a denomination, I find a lot of good sound teaching in Southern Baptist Convention Churches. While I was in college and then the USAF, I still attended SBC Churches. Even up until 3 yrs ago, I was a member of the local SBC church. I left that church not over doctrinal issues but because the church chose to build for itself large, ornate buildings going deeply into debt instead of supporting missionary work. It has become a home for the upper crust and shuns the local farmers and workers who built the church in the first place.
However, I happen to disagree with SBC teachings about Heaven and referring to Sunday as the Sabbath. I don't think immersion baptism should be required as it's not an issue in one's salvation. I wish SBC churches would go back to being more local oriented and less national oriented. So with that said, maybe we could discuss that ... immersion baptism. That seems to be a sticking point and local verses national organization.
Scott
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Post by PhilipDC78 on Oct 14, 2004 8:44:56 GMT -5
Thank you for your replies I totally respect your position, and I do believe it is the ideal. However, I would like to see an in-depth discussion on Protestant Unity only. I would like to see how far a thread can go without any discussion of Catholicism. Since protestantism has rejected the RCC and Orthodoxy, they should not even be a factor in this debate. It seems to me that for whatever reason, most Prostestants are constantly comparing themselves to a form of Christianity that they don't even believe is Christian. It is also used as a "dodge"; can't think of a rational response? Attack Rome!!!! That's why I wanted to keep this thread away from RC and Orthodoxy, and place it strictly within the Prostestant issue. LauraJean made an excellent post!! Let's discuss Protestant issues of division w/o mentioning RC and Orthodoxy Thanx everyone!! God bless I understand your opinion, but I think you do not understand the way most protestants feel. I have grown up and gone to non-denominational protestant churches my whole life, and none of them focused on rejecting the Roman Catholic or other Orthodox churches. All of them believed as I do that the Roman and Orthodox churces are part of the body of Christ with us. It is only in this message board that I have seen such a high percentage of people who reject the Roman Catholic Church, which is probably why you may think that so many reject them. And as far as speaking of protestant divisions, what do you want me to talk about? I am currently working with my church in building a coalition with over 30 churches here in Gainesville to coordinate our ministries together, to help each other, so that we can better witness to the people of Gainesville, and further promote God. We focus on the fact that we are on the same side, God's side, and even if we have small differences in worship style, we are still one body in Christ.
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Post by Protestant on Oct 14, 2004 18:50:50 GMT -5
They are NOT protestant churchs and you are NOT a protestant. A protestant by definition is a person who rejects popery as the Antichrist. If you believe in Jesusit futurism you are NOT a protestant because protestants believe in Historicism. The term "protestant" is protest - ant. Protesting about the church of Rome. the word was first used in 1529 at the council of Spires when the German princes were protesting against catholicism Thats because protestantism has degenerated substantially since the reformation and most apostate protestants now believe in the jesuit left behind false prophecies. This is one of the caues of disunity in the "Protestant" church's. Rejecting truth and returning to Rome
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Post by LauraJean on Oct 14, 2004 21:14:37 GMT -5
Thats because protestantism has degenerated substantially since the reformation I guess you would be a prime example of this since you reject the theoloy of the early reformers. Blessings, LJ
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Post by Cohdra on Oct 14, 2004 21:39:40 GMT -5
Thank you TarueBeliever and LauraJean for trying to keep this thread on-topic. Since I am not Protestant, I will ask questions as the thread develops, rather than give too many opinions. So, we are starting with Immersion? Any other Prostestants wish to comment? I think this will be very interesting Immersion Pouring Sprinkling God bless
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Post by LauraJean on Oct 15, 2004 8:33:09 GMT -5
So, we are starting with Immersion? Any other Prostestants wish to comment? I think this will be very interesting Immersion Pouring Sprinkling God bless The way I see it, the answer depends on whether or not you see baptism as a means of grace, something in which God acts, or if it is an act of obedience. If you believe it is an act of obedience, then the way you do it matters. If it is a gift from God, then the amount of water used isn't critical. (Can God be limited by a quantity of water?) Here's why I believe it is a means of grace, that baptism is efficacious: 1PE 3:18 For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, 19 through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison 20 who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also--not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at God's right hand--with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him. RO 6:3 Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
RO 6:5 If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection. 6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin-- 7 because anyone who has died has been freed from sin. JN 3:5 Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spiritI can find nothing to support the notion that baptism is merely symbolic, an act of obedience. It is, as I see these pkmtyolpages, a means of grace. Who's next? Blessings, LJ
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Post by PhilipDC78 on Oct 15, 2004 8:52:13 GMT -5
They are NOT protestant churchs and you are NOT a protestant. A protestant by definition is a person who rejects popery as the Antichrist. If you believe in Jesusit futurism you are NOT a protestant because protestants believe in Historicism. The term "protestant" is protest - ant. Protesting about the church of Rome. the word was first used in 1529 at the council of Spires when the German princes were protesting against catholicism Thats because protestantism has degenerated substantially since the reformation and most apostate protestants now believe in the jesuit left behind false prophecies. This is one of the caues of disunity in the "Protestant" church's. Rejecting truth and returning to Rome You make a lot of assumptions from the things I say that I never actually mean. You know what happens when you assume, don't you? <Edited by AuntRonda> As for the garbage you spout out, you have already proven time and again that you have no clue what real Biblical truth is, and there is not use in trying to show you, because all you want to do is argue.
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Post by PhilipDC78 on Oct 15, 2004 8:54:19 GMT -5
Thank you TarueBeliever and LauraJean for trying to keep this thread on-topic. Since I am not Protestant, I will ask questions as the thread develops, rather than give too many opinions. So, we are starting with Immersion? Any other Prostestants wish to comment? I think this will be very interesting Immersion Pouring Sprinkling God bless Here is the way I see it. Jesus' main message was not the actions that you take, but what is going on in your heart. The pharisees were excellent law abiders on the outside, but their hearts were far from God. It matters what goes on in the heart. So whether you are immersed, sprinkled, or poured upon, if your heart is right with God, then that is all that matters.
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Post by LauraJean on Oct 15, 2004 9:18:40 GMT -5
Here is the way I see it. Jesus' main message was not the actions that you take, but what is going on in your heart.... It matters what goes on in the heart. So whether you are immersed, sprinkled, or poured upon, if your heart is right with God, then that is all that matters. We need look no further than the thief on the cross to know what you say is true. Blessings, LJ
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Post by PhilipDC78 on Oct 15, 2004 9:35:45 GMT -5
We need look no further than the thief on the cross to know what you say is true. Blessings, LJ True, true. He didn't even get baptized at all, but his heart with right with God, and so Jesus promised him salvation.
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Post by Protestant on Oct 15, 2004 22:51:02 GMT -5
As for your beliefs <Edited by AuntRonda> you spout out, you have already proven time and again that you have no clue what real Biblical truth is, and there is not use in trying to show you, because all you want to do is argue. Strange. i thought the same about your so called bible knowledge
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Post by Pietro on Oct 19, 2004 8:47:03 GMT -5
Philip,
I believe there should be only one Christian church. But I do not believe that one church is the Catholic Church.
We may have very different interpretatins and understadnings as Christians but I'm not so sure we need to see that as disunity. If we can all agree on the basics (i.e., Jesus is God incarnate who was crucified for us and rose from death) and agreement is still a big question, then we do form a universal Chrstain Church. And in that Church there are many diffrent schools of thought and theology. That is not the problem. The problem is when these schools treat each other with lack of respect, lack of Christian love. It is of course then that we see who the real Christians are.
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Post by PhilipDC78 on Oct 19, 2004 9:37:44 GMT -5
If we can all agree on the basics (i.e., Jesus is God incarnate who was crucified for us and rose from death) and agreement is still a big question It is? I'm pretty sure all Christian denominations agree on the fundamental concepts and precepts of our fait (i.e. the apostle's creed type stuff). It is the "churches" that disagree with them that show that they are truly not Christian. These of course being the Mormons (latter day saints), Jehovah's witnesses, etc. The problem is when these schools treat each other with lack of respect, lack of Christian love. It is of course then that we see who the real Christians are. Very, very true words spoken there. John 13:35 "By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another." Colossians 2:2-3 "My purpose is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge." 1 John 2:5-11 "But if anyone obeys his word, God's love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. Dear friends, I am not writing you a new command but an old one, which you have had since the beginning. This old command is the message you have heard. Yet I am writing you a new command; its truth is seen in him and you, because the darkness is pkmtyolping and the true light is already shining. Anyone who claims to be in the light but hates his brother is still in the darkness. Whoever loves his brother lives in the light, and there is nothing in him to make him stumble. But whoever hates his brother is in the darkness and walks around in the darkness; he does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded him." 1 John 3:10 "This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother."
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Post by Pietro on Nov 25, 2004 12:18:34 GMT -5
It is? I'm pretty sure all Christian denominations agree on the fundamental concepts and precepts of our faith (i.e. the apostle's creed type stuff). It is the "churches" that disagree with them that show that they are truly not Christian. These of course being the Mormons (latter day saints), Jehovah's witnesses, etc. I certainly hope you are right. If so it makes my point; that essentially we are more unified than divided. Why can't we celebrate that and accept each other's theological differences. It seems to me that it is because we often feel a need to evangelize each other. And I don't think there is anything wrong with that either. Good discussion, good debate, challenging and thinking about what we believe and why: I think God likes that. But then often our need to evangelize is also coming from our own sense of insecurity. And of course, being human, we easily turn to judgement.
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