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Post by Archangelwolf on Aug 4, 2004 23:56:25 GMT -5
This new book is sure raising a lot of eyebrows, and blood pressures for that matter. Some interesting observations and claims about our Lord and his companions 2000 years ago.
Well, here is my take.
I have long doubted the claim that Mary Magdalene was the prostitute that Jesus saved from the stoning mob. The Bible, in my opinion, was never really clear on that. Also, I have long suspected that Mary Magdalene may have been Jesus love interest at that time. She certainly was more devoted to Him than anyone else; even His own disciples. It was also a clear indication of how revolutionary Jesus was in that He associated with women as well as men; and looked at them all in equal standing.
HOWEVER....
I do not believe that Jesus and Mary Magdalene were married; and did not have any children. Not because that would take away what Jesus is, but because it was a sacrifice that He made in order to do what it is He was sent to do. The book uses the fact that rabbis in Jewish custom were permitted to marry, and were strongly instructed to do so. However, the book misses one very important point. Jesus was not subject to the expectations of men. Jesus is God; our Creator in human flesh.
Jesus was 100% human. He did human things. He had to use the bathroom from time to time. So what? Does that mean that He had to get married?
The interesting thing that I am begging to ask, especially after a special on 20/20 the other day, is how some Catholic priests can argue that it is okay for Jesus to get married, but blasphemy to say that His mother had normal marital relations with her husband Joseph; and even had other children. I really wanted to ask this question very much.
In my own personal conclusion, yes I believe that Jesus may have been IN LOVE with Mary Magdalene as His human love-interest. However, because of who He is (God and Creator), He denied His human ambitions for a family, and instead seeked the will of God to become a human sacrifice for the sinful nature of humanity. Why? Because the love of God is stronger than any love that any human being can have for another human being. Jesus, as God the Creator, loves His Creation, which means us, millions times more than He could love any woman.
And that is my take on the Da Vinci Codes.
Arch.
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Post by marysia on Aug 5, 2004 8:56:57 GMT -5
i read the book becasue there were a number of people at work that wanted to talk about it and since i had no clue...
it was hard for me to get started but did enjoy it as a work of fiction.
i have to tell you, to an extent, I agree with your statements. personally, i think that very possible, Christ did "love" mary in more than that of a disciple. however, does that mean He acted upon it or anything else -- gracious no. He is and was the Saviour and Son of God. While I can believe that He may have had "human feelings" for a woman, I believe He was Man enough to act like a man. Jesus knew what was to become of Him and I do not believe He ever married.
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Post by TarueBeliever on Aug 5, 2004 14:55:21 GMT -5
Below are the pkmtyolpages in the Bible mentioning Mary Magdalene ...
1 Soon afterwards, He began going around from one city and village to another, proclaiming and preaching the kingdom of God. The twelve were with Him, 2 and also some women who had been healed of evil spirits and sicknesses: Mary who was called Magdalene, from whom seven demons had gone out, 3 and Joanna the wife of Chuza, Herod's steward, and Susanna, and many others who were contributing to their support out of their private means. Luke 8:1-3 NASB
55 Many women were there looking on from a distance, who had followed Jesus from Galilee while ministering to Him. 56 Among them was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zebedee. Matthew 27:55-56 NASB
40 There were also some women looking on from a distance, among whom were Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the Less and Joses, and Salome. 41 When He was in Galilee, they used to follow Him and minister to Him; and there were many other women who came up with Him to Jerusalem. Mark 15:40-41 NASB
57 When it was evening, there came a rich man from Arimathea, named Joseph, who himself had also become a disciple of Jesus. 58 This man went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus. Then Pilate ordered it to be given to him. 59 And Joseph took the body and wrapped it in a clean linen cloth, 60 and laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock; and he rolled a large stone against the entrance of the tomb and went away. 61 And Mary Magdalene was there, and the other Mary, sitting opposite the grave. Matthew 27:57-61 NASB
42 When evening had already come, because it was the preparation day, that is, the day before the Sabbath, 43 Joseph of Arimathea came, a prominent member of the Council, who himself was waiting for the kingdom of God; and he gathered up courage and went in before Pilate, and asked for the body of Jesus. 44 Pilate wondered if He was dead by this time, and summoning the centurion, he questioned him as to whether He was already dead. 45 And ascertaining this from the centurion, he granted the body to Joseph. 46 Joseph bought a linen cloth, took Him down, wrapped Him in the linen cloth and laid Him in a tomb which had been hewn out in the rock; and he rolled a stone against the entrance of the tomb. 47 Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of Joses were looking on to see where He was laid. Mark 15:42-47 NASB
1 Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to look at the grave. 2 And behold, a severe earthquake had occurred, for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven and came and rolled away the stone and sat upon it. 3 And his appearance was like lightning, and his clothing as white as snow. 4 The guards shook for fear of him and became like dead men. 5 The angel said to the women, "Do not be afraid; for I know that you are looking for Jesus who has been crucified. 6 "He is not here, for He has risen, just as He said. Come, see the place where He was lying. 7 "Go quickly and tell His disciples that He has risen from the dead; and behold, He is going ahead of you into Galilee, there you will see Him; behold, I have told you." 8 And they left the tomb quickly with fear and great joy and ran to report it to His disciples. 9 And behold, Jesus met them and greeted them. And they came up and took hold of His feet and worshiped Him. Matthew 28:1-9 NASB
1 When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, bought spices, so that they might come and anoint Him. 2 Very early on the first day of the week, they came to the tomb when the sun had risen. 3 They were saying to one another, "Who will roll away the stone for us from the entrance of the tomb?" 4 Looking up, they saw that the stone had been rolled away, although it was extremely large. 5 Entering the tomb, they saw a young man sitting at the right, wearing a white robe; and they were amazed. 6 And he said to them, "Do not be amazed; you are looking for Jesus the Nazarene, who has been crucified. He has risen; He is not here; behold, here is the place where they laid Him. 7 "But go, tell His disciples and Peter, 'He is going ahead of you to Galilee; there you will see Him, just as He told you.'" 8 They went out and fled from the tomb, for trembling and astonishment had gripped them; and they said nothing to anyone, for they were afraid. 9 Now after He had risen early on the first day of the week, He first appeared to Mary Magdalene, from whom He had cast out seven demons. 10 She went and reported to those who had been with Him, while they were mourning and weeping. 11 When they heard that He was alive and had been seen by her, they refused to believe it. 12 After that, He appeared in a different form to two of them while they were walking along on their way to the country. Mark 16:1-8, {9-12} NASB
1 But on the first day of the week, at early dawn, they came to the tomb bringing the spices which they had prepared. 2 And they found the stone rolled away from the tomb, 3 but when they entered, they did not find the body of the Lord Jesus. 4 While they were perplexed about this, behold, two men suddenly stood near them in dazzling clothing; 5 and as the women were terrified and bowed their faces to the ground, the men said to them, "Why do you seek the living One among the dead? 6 "He is not here, but He has risen. Remember how He spoke to you while He was still in Galilee, 7 saying that the Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again." 8 And they remembered His words, 9 and returned from the tomb and reported all these things to the eleven and to all the rest. 10 Now they were Mary Magdalene and Joanna and Mary the mother of James; also the other women with them were telling these things to the apostles. Luke 24:1-10 NASB
continued on next post
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Post by TarueBeliever on Aug 5, 2004 14:56:41 GMT -5
continued from previous post
1 Now on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene came early to the tomb, while it was still dark, and saw the stone already taken away from the tomb. 2 So she ran and came to Simon Peter and to the other disciple whom Jesus loved, and said to them, "They have taken away the Lord out of the tomb, and we do not know where they have laid Him."
10 So the disciples went away again to their own homes. 11 But Mary was standing outside the tomb weeping; and so, as she wept, she stooped and looked into the tomb; 12 and she saw two angels in white sitting, one at the head and one at the feet, where the body of Jesus had been lying. 13 And they said to her, "Woman, why are you weeping?" She said to them, "Because they have taken away my Lord, and I do not know where they have laid Him." 14 When she had said this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, and did not know that it was Jesus. 15 Jesus said to her, "Woman, why are you weeping? Whom are you seeking?" Supposing Him to be the gardener, she said to Him, "Sir, if you have carried Him away, tell me where you have laid Him, and I will take Him away." 16 Jesus said to her, "Mary!" She turned and said to Him in Hebrew, "Rabboni!" (which means, Teacher). 17 Jesus said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'" 18 Mary Magdalene came, announcing to the disciples, "I have seen the Lord," and that He had said these things to her. John 20:1-2, 10-18 NASB
None of these pkmtyolpages indicate she was ever a prostitute. That is clear. None of these pkmtyolpages indicate any sort of romantic relationship between Jesus and Mary Magdalene. The author of The Da Vinci Code has to stretch the Bible far out of shape to make his idea work (Mary of Bethany was really Mary of Magdalene for instance). The Da Vinci Code is not a scholarly work. It's pulp fiction with one thing in mind ... to separate as much CA$H as possible from a gulible public.
TB
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Post by Cohdra on Aug 7, 2004 1:25:53 GMT -5
Jesus is both God and man. He understood the difference between love and the sex drive. I do not believe Jesus would confuse the two. He understood the highest form of love, which has no connection with the sexual urge to procreate. Unfortunately, this concept is lost on most humans, who always make the error of connecting them. We, as sinners, always have a desire to believe everyone else is committing the same error that we are; unfortunately, we would even extend this to our Lord Jesus Christ. It makes us not feel so bad about ourselves to imagine God's perfect Son is just like you and me. He isn't. He is above us in every way. He has to be and had to be; or he would not have been the "Spotless Lamb" that was required for the perfect work of redemption. No other would do for the heavenly Father....the sacrifice had to be perfect...and the Lamb of God was and is this perfect being. We, as Christians, must always learn to separate love from bodily urges, just as our Lord and Saviour did in his earthly life. I do not believe Christ loved Mary Magdalene in any other way except with this highest form of pure love....the same love he extended to his disciples, his family, his enemies, and us
God bless
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Post by silveradofarmgirl on Aug 7, 2004 1:46:48 GMT -5
Its my understanding that MM was never a prostitute- that in fact it was taken out of context in a sermon by a catholic priest I believe in the 1940's, and the misconception continued.
I do think that she was a sinner, like we all are. But I don't think she was a ho. And no where in the bible does it say she was a ho.
I think that Jesus loved Mary like he would a close confidant or even a sister. I think she may have acted as an advisor. I think she had a lot of influence on Jesus, and gave Him strength to continue on. She was devoted to Him, again as a very close friend or sister.
I can say, that my best friend in the entire world is a male, we have been close friends since grade school, and there is NOTHING seshual about our relationship. (he is gay for one thing). But I love him deeply like I love my brothers. I think this is how Jesus loved MM.
As far as the DaVinci Code, I thought it was a great book, and interesting reading. It read very fast once I started it. If you like intrigue stories it would be a good one to read.
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Post by MorningStar on Aug 8, 2004 22:49:26 GMT -5
I thought it was a good book, but it was a fictional story. If you want to read a book that is touted as fact, check out Holy Blood, Holy Grail, which I believe Brown even references.
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Post by silveradofarmgirl on Aug 8, 2004 23:17:05 GMT -5
Morning Star, has this one actually been considered "true" or is it a work of fiction like DVC?
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Post by Archangelwolf on Aug 9, 2004 0:26:49 GMT -5
Obviously, I expect there are a lot of different takes on this.
I can't help myself, though. I believe that, as a child growing up, Jesus would have had crushes and such. It happens to us all when were are struggling through adolescence. So, yes, I believe that Jesus may have had a fondness for Mary Magdalene that, had Jesus been anyone else, would have been what we call romantic or marital love. However, Jesus was God clothed in human flesh. He knew God's will better than anyone who has ever lived. Jesus denied His human wants to fulfill His purpose as the sacrifice for all of our fallenness.
I agree that Mary Magdalene was a very influential woman in the first churches. I believe that, had she been a man, she would have been a disciple. But, because of the Jewish opinion of women as instructed by the Torah and Talmud, it would have only hurt their cause.
I disagree that Mary Magdalene influenced Jesus. Jesus is God. Jesus had the Holy Spirit at His access at all times. The only influence we as human beings had on Him was the fact that we were so loved by Him that He gave His life for us. That is it.
Later,
Arch.
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Post by MorningStar on Aug 9, 2004 18:24:52 GMT -5
Morning Star, has this one actually been considered "true" or is it a work of fiction like DVC? in my world, the jury is still out, though I think its an interesting possiblity in its world, the book totes itself as fact, backed by historical evidence - I can find more info on it and post later if you would like - or you can email me - jeff@Opensouls.com
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Betty
Junior Member
Posts: 85
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Post by Betty on Aug 11, 2004 13:15:48 GMT -5
I have read not only the Da Vinci Code but also Angles and Demons and to tell tne truth I enjoyed both of them. Are the fact or fiction I really don't care I have allways enjoyed a good read Oh one other thing when I say i've read these books make it 4 times each Betty ;D
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Post by MorningStar on Aug 11, 2004 22:49:43 GMT -5
I actually thought Angels and Demons was a much better book. I though the DaVinci code's story was a little weak, and had just an ok ending.
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