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Post by PhilipDC78 on Jun 29, 2004 11:27:29 GMT -5
Hi, someone got me thinking about this, and I would like to provide something new to debate about other than what is currently being debate. Please keep it civil, but give your honest opinions. Thanks.
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Post by babysis on Jun 29, 2004 11:52:08 GMT -5
I guess I don't necessarily see it as abuse, but I've seen far too many actual cases and far too many studies showing the ill effects of it and how other methods are so much more effective that I think it is the wrong method to use.
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Post by PhilipDC78 on Jun 29, 2004 15:11:15 GMT -5
Do I? No. Does a child know the difference? I'd say more than likely not. If they get in trouble for hitting a kid on the butt and there punishment is a spanking (hitting on the butt) they are going to be extremely confused. They did exactly what mom or dad did to them, but they got in trouble for it. A child can't see the difference between hitting and spanking (depending on age of course). What age of a child are you talking about? My father always would explain to me why I was getting a spanking, and I was never confused between that and me hitting someone. If the child is too young to understand the parent as to why they are getting spanked, then they are too young to be spanked. That is why I said, if done in the right way. I think that, like any punishment, the child should understand why they are being punished, otherwise the punishment serves no purpose. Also, my father has told me, that the explaining of why the spanking was being given gave him time to cool off so that he would not spank when he was angry. It is also why he would send me to my room before he spanked me, so that he could further cool down. I always knew why I was being spanked.
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Post by babysis on Jun 30, 2004 9:07:56 GMT -5
Phillip, I'll try to get back to you tonight. I was writing my resume last night and didn't get a chance.
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Post by PhilipDC78 on Jun 30, 2004 10:25:51 GMT -5
Phillip, I'll try to get back to you tonight. I was writing my resume last night and didn't get a chance. no prob, take your time.
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Post by SonWorshiper on Jun 30, 2004 10:40:57 GMT -5
This is just another case of know-it-all human beings (the edumacated elite who deceive the pkmtyolmes with their often incomplete and inaccurate studies) who think they've figured out a better way to raise children than to simply follow what God says about how to raise them.
Spanking has been, and always will be, an effective form of discipline. But, it must be administered by a parent who is under control, and with a clear understanding of why the spanking is necessary.
Bottom line is, spanking is a God-given mandate for children who get out of line. This is indisputable. Proverbs is clear on this subject:
"He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes." (13:24)
"Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him." (22:15)
"Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell." (23:13-14)
"The rod and reproof give wisdom..." (29:15)
When a person says spanking is the wrong method to use, basically they're telling God that He's wrong about how to discipline a child, because clearly, spanking is taught in God's Word as a sometimes necessary form of discipline.
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Post by AuntRonda on Jun 30, 2004 13:58:16 GMT -5
Spanking done correctly is not abuse.
As a teacher, I take the time to explain this to my students.
Ronda
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Post by Archangelwolf on Jul 1, 2004 23:53:40 GMT -5
Hmmm...Thanks, Philip. This is certainly an interesting subject.
My wife works for Family Protective Services (formerly known as CPS). It is legal to spank a child below the kidneys, but no lower than the buttocks. However, there are stipulations for unusual bruising.
In our opinion, other remedies should be tried FIRST. I know some children that will mind if scolded, and that is without being threatened with a spanking. However, I also know some children that will not listen to a scolding, but do listen to a spanking. Obviously, this will vary from child to child.
We strongly discourage spanking unless absolutely necessary. Will we spank our children? I have said that I might make one quick pat on the rear if I believe it is needed, but if at all possible I will avoid it.
That is our opinion.
Arch.
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Post by SonWorshiper on Jul 2, 2004 12:21:22 GMT -5
There's an old saying used by parents just before disciplining a child: "This is going to hurt me a lot more than you." And I think if one is spanking out of love, this is one of the truest statements of all time.
I had an incident with a great niece (4 years old) whom I just love and adore. I took her and three other nieces and nephews to the park about four blocks from my sister's house. Anyway, my great niece decided to just sneak on back home without telling me or anyone else. So many things were going through my head. I thought for sure something had happened to her, and we were going to be the next big story on the news!
Thankfully she was at home. But I knew I had some unpleasant business to take care of. I didn't spank her, but I did have to show my displeasure of her action by having a controlled, yet stern talk with her. First, I picked her up, hugged her, and thanked God she was safe. Then, as I held her, I lectured her up and down about how wrong it was to leave the group like she did. She had never seen this side of me before, as I am usuallly too busy having fun with the kids for them to take me as a disciplinarian.
But, in this case, it had to be done. And it did hurt to have to scold her, but I knew it was for her own good. To get the importance of my message, I held my anger for about an hour, and she knew I was ticked. I hated that one hour! But she had to get the message. I couldn't wait to go out there and pick her up and hug her and be her favorite uncle again!
Later she said, "You scared me when you got angry with me." And then I explained why I reacted the way I did, and that I meant to leave that kind of impression so she would remember it the next time she thought about running off like she did. It could save her life.
If it happens again, she might get a little more than a stern look and an angry voice!
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Post by AuntRonda on Jul 2, 2004 20:18:57 GMT -5
Having taught school for 18 years.........
I say 2 to 5 swats is appropiate for a spanking. Hand, paddle, or wooden xyhgt to swat with.
Ronda
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Post by stevec on Jul 3, 2004 2:59:48 GMT -5
...the edumacated elite... ;D ;D ;D I thought my wife an I were the only ones who used this expression. As for the OP, you and I, SonWorshipper, are once again in agreement. There is a vast difference between beating and spanking.
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Boaz
New Member
Posts: 8
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Post by Boaz on Jul 4, 2004 23:16:08 GMT -5
I totally agree with spanking because I agree with the WORD of God... God in His wisdom has told us how to discipline, but man in his "wisdom" always has a "better way". I believe parents are doing an injustice by not spanking.... Gods way is always the best way!
There is a world of difference between spanking and beating. Children are credited for being stupid when people say they dont know the difference between punishment and causing violence to another..... Children are smarter than that!! Parents who believe this on the other hand..... Other cultures I have observed use spanking as a form of discipline and seldom have I seen the love greater between parents and children. The children are very well behaved compared to many of the spoiled brats observed in our culture of "time-outs" which is suppose to be superb.... I believe results is the best indicator of what is effective and what is not...... Blessings, Boaz
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Post by silveradofarmgirl on Aug 7, 2004 2:21:33 GMT -5
I don't agree with spanking at all. I don't think it is effective punishment- it only serves to reinforce that the parent rules by pain, and not by gaining the respect of a child through modeling appropriate behavior and being kind. I grew up in a very abusive household. I distinctly remember being whipped from a very young age with belts on my back and legs and having bruises and welts that lasted for weeks. Try explaining that to the junior high girls when you have to change your clothes in the gym locker room. Once when I was 13 I was with my girlfriend at a youth group meeting. The meeting ran late, and I was home 15 minutes late. I ended up with a split lip and black eye because I was "irresponsible". The youth minister even came to my house and told him it was HIS fault, not mine, and I got it again because "an outside person was interfering in our family business". I was never allowed to go back to youth group again. As far as child services- hah. I don't know how many times the abuse on all 4 of us was reported. We got interviewed by social services, blah blah blah. We were put into 72 hr protective custody several times. They just sent us back because they all just want to reunify families. Plus it is cheaper for the state to keep abused kids in the house they are being beaten/molested in, than it is to pull them out and put them in foster care. Did I respect the person beating me? No. I grew to resent and hate him, and to this day foster a deep hatred for him. For years my bedtime prayer was for my stepfather to die in his sleep. Now I hope he dies an extremly painful and slow death. I thank God that my mother finally woke up and saw what was happening to her kids, and kicked him out of the house. I was almost 15 then. The damage was done. And of course you all will say that there is a difference between spanking and beating. Well I can say from personal experience that there are better ways to discipline a child than smacking them around.
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Post by PhilipDC78 on Aug 7, 2004 13:40:35 GMT -5
I don't agree with spanking at all. I don't think it is effective punishment- it only serves to reinforce that the parent rules by pain, and not by gaining the respect of a child through modeling appropriate behavior and being kind. My father spanked me, and I didn't think that they ruled by pain. My father always explained to me why I was being spanked, and how I was supposed to behave. I respected my father very much. I grew up in a very abusive household. I distinctly remember being whipped from a very young age with belts on my back and legs and having bruises and welts that lasted for weeks. Try explaining that to the junior high girls when you have to change your clothes in the gym locker room. Once when I was 13 I was with my girlfriend at a youth group meeting. The meeting ran late, and I was home 15 minutes late. I ended up with a split lip and black eye because I was "irresponsible". The youth minister even came to my house and told him it was HIS fault, not mine, and I got it again because "an outside person was interfering in our family business". I was never allowed to go back to youth group again. As far as child services- hah. I don't know how many times the abuse on all 4 of us was reported. We got interviewed by social services, blah blah blah. We were put into 72 hr protective custody several times. They just sent us back because they all just want to reunify families. Plus it is cheaper for the state to keep abused kids in the house they are being beaten/molested in, than it is to pull them out and put them in foster care. Did I respect the person beating me? No. I grew to resent and hate him, and to this day foster a deep hatred for him. For years my bedtime prayer was for my stepfather to die in his sleep. Now I hope he dies an extremly painful and slow death. I thank God that my mother finally woke up and saw what was happening to her kids, and kicked him out of the house. I was almost 15 then. The damage was done. I am sorry for the abuse that you endured. That sort of thing should never, never, never be done to a child. But spanking is not abuse, if administered correctly. I also pray that you can come to the point in your life where you can forgive your stepfather. Only the power of Christ can help you do something like that. And of course you all will say that there is a difference between spanking and beating. Well I can say from personal experience that there are better ways to discipline a child than smacking them around. And that is because it is true. My father never, ever "smacked me around." And this is from personal experience. Again, I'm sorry about your experience with an abusive household, but spanking is not abuse.
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Post by Mrs.KingdomWarrior on Sept 7, 2004 21:47:13 GMT -5
I would have to guess that the majority of you that have said that spanking is abuse and we shouldn't spank don't have children. ;D I have four children and I love them all very much. So much that I spank them when they disobey me deliberately or do something that could be potentially harmful to them or some one else. If you have children you know that if you tell a 4 year old not to run out in front of a car because it will hurt doesn't always stick and they don't always remember and comprehend. Therefore, a spanking for disobeying and doing something that could get them killed is a good punishment to me. They will remember "Hey, if I run out in the street and my mom sees me she's going to spank my but so what should I do?" "Not run in the street to avoid the spanking" Mission accomplished. It doesn't always work to use the "time out" punishment...however I have used it some also. Spanking seems to work the best but I only use that when it's absolutely necessary. NEVER spank when you are angry...believe me....you can loose your temper with your own child whom you love deeply!
Anyway, I believe God knew what he was doing by saying "spanking" is a good form of punishment.
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