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Post by RealistState on Apr 23, 2004 0:05:24 GMT -5
Let's see. We intercepted a shipment of CRYOSTATS in England, bound for Iraq. Cryostats are high-performance switches used in the production of nuclear bombs.The operative word you missed is could. Yes, they could be used in the production of nuclear bombs. But they also have other applications. I refer you to this company right in Oak Ridge, Tennesee where you can buy one with a Visa or Master Card. However shipping them out of the country may be subject to ITAR. www.cryomagnetics.com/index.htmIntercepted? I thought the US troops found them? Which by the way, you need uranium to refine if they are to be of any use. Let's not forget about the bogus story of the "orange cakes". On June 7, 1981, that 16 Israeli warplanes bombed and destroyed Iraq's Osirak nuclear research facility near Baghdad, more than 600 miles from Israel's borders. Prime Minister Menachem Begin claimed the reactor was about to go into operation and was a threat to Israel because it could produce nuclear weapons. Begin's claims were contradicted by a number of experts, but there was considerable circumstantial evidence that Iraq indeed hoped eventually to develop a nuclear weapon. Could have been WMDs, could have been Saddams family...who knows... That we know, Saddam was pretty ruthless on his own people. As far as the serin used in Japan, I've seen no link to Iraq as being the source, have you? Agreed Even the administration has backed off that claim. Now it was because he was a "threat to the region". I was wondering when someone was going to try the "Hitler-Hussein" connection. A review of history will show that both were brutal, ruthless dictators, the similarity ends there. Without getting in there personal tastes or mental health, from a geo-political world, the appeasers (including the US) failed to contain Hitler and his ambitions, where the 1st Gulf War effectively put Saddam back in his litter box. Even Gerge H Bush saw the danger of removing him after the 1st war (although back then I thought it was a mistake). Now this secular dictator (who wasn't a very good Muslim to begin with) has become the "darling" of every American hater in the world.
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Post by Kee on Apr 23, 2004 0:48:39 GMT -5
Now this secular dictator (who wasn't a very good Muslim to begin with) has become the "darling" of every Aerican hater in the world. Yes, and the other shoe is getting to drop. In the last few weeks, our President has been preparing the country for the blow. Diaglog such as, "this is a hard country to defend" is being chanted over and over again. My guess is there is significant chatter about and they are aware it's going to be sooner than later.
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Post by Kee on Apr 23, 2004 0:55:00 GMT -5
We don't Jan. You've bought into this administrations manipulation of the media, and manipulation of you, hook line and sinker. Just look at how you are sitting there accepting the lies you were told. You've allowed them to build hate for another within you so much that you don't even care about the wrong in what your President is doing. I know other regimes that have done this to it's people. Guess which ones.
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Post by Archangelwolf on Apr 23, 2004 1:39:59 GMT -5
Killing is wrong! I do not care how one defends it.
We are put on this earth to love, nurture, and create. The only thing that is going on in Iraq is destruction, hate, and murder. We as Christians are going to have to separate ourselves from this world. Our Kingdom is not of this world. We are Christians first!
I would rather be a Christian living in Iraq, than a Muslim living in America. I am willing to die, if that is the case, to tell the message of love and peace that is offered through Jesus Christ.
I denounce this war as the work of the western world's political agenda, and nothing more. I pray for our troops, and I do not hold them accountable. Instead, I pray that God forgives them, for they know not what they do.
God bless,
Arch.
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Post by MorningStar on Apr 23, 2004 8:39:32 GMT -5
Let's see. We intercepted a shipment of CRYOSTATS in England, bound for Iraq. Cryostats are high-performance switches used in the production of nuclear bombs.We intercepted a shipment of aluminum tubes, consistent with equipment used to refine weapons-grade uranium. We KNOW that saddam had a nuclear bomb production facility; we KNOW that the Iraelis bombed it in the 80's; shall we presume saddam did not begin another one? Hmmm, didn't we say we knew they HAD weapons? Not just that they wanted to build them? If these weapons were such a threat that we would invade Iraq, why didn't we go into Turkey? Like finding a needle in a haystack? I'd hate to have that job. One question, if we KNEW they had them and where they were prior to war and whatnot, why didn't we keep track of movements of these? Guilty by association, huh? Being anti-this-military-action (which doesn't matter any more since we're now there and need to finish the job), but not anti-Bush, most of me wants to say we should have waited. Comparison to Hitler - Hitler took over Czechoslavia and the rest of Eurpoe did nothing. Iraq tried to take Kuwait, we attacked. What did Saddam do this time to provoke us?
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Post by MorningStar on Apr 23, 2004 8:49:08 GMT -5
The only way to deal with terrorists is to kill them.
[/color][/quote] As far as that last line, I have always had trouble with that. Playing war sims and whatnot, I found the only real way to protect yourself is to take out the other guys beforehand or to limit their ability to grow. Dimplomacy rarely worked for me, so I always went with, well, basically genocide. Good thing I'm not in charge of anything....
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Post by MorningStar on Apr 23, 2004 8:52:31 GMT -5
Killing is wrong! I do not care how one defends it. I'd have to disagree with you here. Murder is wrong, whereas killing can be justified. Even the bible/commandments and the Old Testament illustrate that point.
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Post by Archangelwolf on Apr 26, 2004 1:28:34 GMT -5
I disagree. Killing is wrong. Murder is just a part of it.
The OT uses killing as God's judgment. God allowed certain human sects to be killed because of their disobedience. However, the ones doing the killing were also killed; and so on.
Does this mean that killing is not a sin? By no means. God uses our human natures as part of His own judgment against others. Whether it be personal ambition, pride, arrogance, or any other of our valuable human traits; we always find a reason to go to war with someone else. God knows this. In effect, He uses our inevitable qualities to His advantage sometimes.
However, taking a person's life is not natural, self destructive, and a sin. God wishes to create and increase life; not destroy it. Our purpose on this planet is to create, love, and nurture. Anything we do to the contrary is disobedience; and is therefore a sin.
Now, before someone goes on a tangent, understand that I preserve the right of defense. I understand that people, as well as nations, have to adequately defend themselves against aggression. For the sake of self-preservation, taking a life may become necessary. HOWEVER, even in this case, I still consider it a sin. In light of this, we must realize that all sins are the same in God's eyes. There are no greater or lesser sins; because sin is simply disobedience to God. Therefore, I know that I can recieve the same forgiveness for the sin of taking a life as if I talked back to my mama. We must understand, though; that God knows our intent. This does not give us licence to go around killing and then asking forgiveness. There must be compkmtyolpion and regret, as well as repentance. Repentance means that we intend to never do this again.
Arch.
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Post by Kee on Apr 26, 2004 1:38:24 GMT -5
I'd have to disagree with you here. Murder is wrong, whereas killing can be justified. Even the bible/commandments and the Old Testament illustrate that point. Too much wiggle room...that's why I am more in agreement with perennial philosophy. The deeper and more concise meaning behind all of the ten commandemnts is "Thou shall not violate." Killing is ALWAYS a violation.
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Post by genesda on Apr 26, 2004 4:41:34 GMT -5
Yes, and the other shoe is getting to drop. In the last few weeks, our President has been preparing the country for the blow. Diaglog such as, "this is a hard country to defend" is being chanted over and over again. My guess is there is significant chatter about and they are aware it's going to be sooner than later. Did you need Bush to tell you this is a hard country to defend? Our borders are open to whomever wants to come in, by whatever means they wish to come. I wish that would change. I also wish that illegals would be rounded up and deported too. [/color]
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Post by genesda on Apr 26, 2004 4:43:18 GMT -5
We don't Jan. You've bought into this administrations manipulation of the media, and manipulation of you, hook line and sinker. Just look at how you are sitting there accepting the lies you were told. You've allowed them to build hate for another within you so much that you don't even care about the wrong in what your President is doing. I know other regimes that have done this to it's people. Guess which ones. Which lies would those be? Could you be a little more specific, or be specific at all? [/color]
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Post by genesda on Apr 26, 2004 4:52:41 GMT -5
Killing is wrong! I do not care how one defends it. We are put on this earth to love, nurture, and create. The only thing that is going on in Iraq is destruction, hate, and murder. This is not true. There are hospitals BACK in operation, schools teaching the children, woman getting educated for the first time, running water, electricity, businesses are open again and many other things that were forbidden before. The murdering dictators are gone, the supression by Saddam's henchmen are gone, and peace will be restored in due time. [/color] We as Christians are going to have to separate ourselves from this world. Our Kingdom is not of this world. We are Christians first! That's debatable. "Christian" is a term that is used too loosely. [/color] I would rather be a Christian living in Iraq, than a Muslim living in America. I am willing to die, if that is the case, to tell the message of love and peace that is offered through Jesus Christ. No, you really wouldn't want that. [/color] I denounce this war as the work of the western world's political agenda, and nothing more. Really? Maybe we should just sit back and let the terrorists bring in bio and chem weapons and use them too, right? [/color] I pray for our troops, and I do not hold them accountable. Instead, I pray that God forgives them, for they know not what they do. God bless, Arch. They know exactly what they are doing. They are defending YOUR right to express your ideas of what kind of govenment we have in this country, and to make you safe to do so. They know what they are doing even if you don't. [/color]
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Post by genesda on Apr 26, 2004 5:03:19 GMT -5
Hmmm, didn't we say we knew they HAD weapons? Not just that they wanted to build them? We know he had chem and bio. He was trying to get nuclear. Should we have waited until we had "clear" evidence on nuclear to move? [/color] If these weapons were such a threat that we would invade Iraq, why didn't we go into Turkey? Simple. Turkey didn't want us to. They are not our enemy at this time. [/color] Like finding a needle in a haystack? I'd hate to have that job. One question, if we KNEW they had them and where they were prior to war and whatnot, why didn't we keep track of movements of these? I would guess that was because we nad no intelligence on the ground and depended on satillite survailence.(sp) [/color] Guilty by association, huh? No, there is an airline fusalage on the ground at Salman Pak, south of Bagdad that was used to train terrorists in hijacking airplanes. We had defectors that confirmed this. [/color] Being anti-this-military-action (which doesn't matter any more since we're now there and need to finish the job), but not anti-Bush, most of me wants to say we should have waited. Comparison to Hitler - Hitler took over Czechoslavia and the rest of Eurpoe did nothing. Iraq tried to take Kuwait, we attacked. What did Saddam do this time to provoke us? We don't yet know the full scope of what Saddam was doing in concert with the terrorists. We do know that he was harboring them and that they were training in Iraq under his protection. Personally, with all that we do know about him, I believe there was plenty enough of a reason to get rid of him. Why don't you visit www.rushlimbaugh.com. There is plenty of free stuff to convince sceptics. I'm talking about reputable, verifable sources, not Rush's opinions.
[/color]
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Post by RealistState on Apr 26, 2004 5:48:06 GMT -5
This is not true. There are hospitals BACK in operation, schools teaching the children, woman getting educated for the first time, running water, electricity, businesses are open again and many other things that were forbidden before. The murdering dictators are gone, the supression by Saddam's henchmen are gone, and peace will be restored in due time. [/color][/quote] I think you've confused Iraq with Afghanistan.
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Post by MorningStar on Apr 26, 2004 10:28:01 GMT -5
I hope its not like the things we found out about the Cold War - how we overestimated the USSR's military abilities and equipment and whatnot.
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