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Post by Nicodemus on Mar 27, 2004 8:40:23 GMT -5
"For by the works of the law there shall no flesh be justified in His sight" (Gal. 2:16)
I'll just sit back and watch for a day or so.
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Post by RodP on Mar 27, 2004 14:55:01 GMT -5
means that you still far short of the mark. head still under water. destinerd for hell . Unless you accept one simple thing (not in that verse, but it still is applicable!
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Post by Shirley on Mar 27, 2004 18:53:15 GMT -5
Works ain't gonna save you? Nothing you can do...'cept that one thing RodP alluded to....
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Post by heathen76 on Mar 27, 2004 23:30:00 GMT -5
Well, DUH! Everyone knows that you have to tithe to be saved. What are you all, amateurs?
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Post by RodP on Mar 28, 2004 0:04:51 GMT -5
Well, DUH! Everyone knows that you have to tithe to be saved. What are you all, amateurs? And you gave where? Ohh at the door!
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Post by genesda on Mar 29, 2004 6:39:47 GMT -5
"For by the works of the law there shall no flesh be justified in His sight" (Gal. 2:16) I'll just sit back and watch for a day or so. Simple. It means that there is no salvation in keeping the law. Keeping the law does not give anyone salvation. Is this plain enough?
Now, you show where wilfull sinners/lawbreakers can attain heaven, or what does the following verses mean.
Revelation 12:17
1 John 2:3-4
1 John 1:8
1 John 5:2
1 John 3:4
To build a doctrine on one verse is deceptive.
[/color]
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Post by Nicodemus on Mar 29, 2004 7:57:49 GMT -5
"For by the works of the law there shall no flesh be justified in His sight" (Gal. 2:16) I'll just sit back and watch for a day or so. Simple. It means that there is no salvation in keeping the law. Keeping the law does not give anyone salvation. Is this plain enough?
Now, you show where wilfull sinners/lawbreakers can attain heaven, or what does the following verses mean.
Revelation 12:17
1 John 2:3-4
1 John 1:8
1 John 5:2
1 John 3:4
To build a doctrine on one verse is deceptive.
[/color][/quote] To build a doctrine on a single verse is indeed deceptive, and contrary to the teaching of Scripture that it is not to be subject to private interpretation - however, it is permissible to begin a discussion with a single verse - and to explore the understanding of that verse, and then to perhaps use that verse to add with others to establish doctrine. You have answered that keeping the law does not give anyone salvation - in essense, stating the negative but omitting the positive. Ok, what does give salvation? And is the answer found spoken of in this verse? As to your other questions, I will give my thoughts on them, but the OP verse is the issue here, and I'd like to keep the discussion in context - and possibly in Galatians for the most part.
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Post by Nicodemus on Mar 29, 2004 8:13:43 GMT -5
"For by the works of the law there shall no flesh be justified in His sight" (Gal. 2:16)
Now, you show where wilfull sinners/lawbreakers can attain heaven, or what does the following verses mean.
Revelation 12:17
1 John 2:3-4
1 John 1:8
1 John 5:2
1 John 3:4
To build a doctrine on one verse is deceptive.
[/color][/quote] Revelation 12:17 "And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ" These are primarily Jewish believers saved during the Tribulation period. The Antichrist is going to prevail against the saints and destroy most of them. 1 John 2:3-4 "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him" 1 John 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us" Why would you divorce this pkmtyolpage from verses 9 and 10? "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us" 1 John 5:2 "By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments" See final paragraph 1 John 3:4 "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law" "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life . . . " (Rom. 6:23) Paul states that "all unrighteousness is sin" He also stated that "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God," or miss his perfect standard. Most of these questions have to do with keeping the law, and the answer to "What is the law?" is found in I John 3:23-24. "And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us" Simply broken down it speaks thus: 1. We should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ = we need to get saved 2. And love one another = We need to go out and lead others to Christ. For in winning them to Christ we are loving our neighbors as we love ourselves. A soulwinner is one that uniquely is "dwelling in him, and he in him" because a soulwinner understands the importance of walking with God and keeping himself unspotted from the world. "By the Spirit which he has given us" is the Spirit that Jesus Christ had when he "came to seek and to save that which was lost."
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Post by genesda on Mar 30, 2004 8:52:55 GMT -5
To build a doctrine on a single verse is indeed deceptive, and contrary to the teaching of Scripture that it is not to be subject to private interpretation - however, it is permissible to begin a discussion with a single verse - and to explore the understanding of that verse, and then to perhaps use that verse to add with others to establish doctrine. You have answered that keeping the law does not give anyone salvation - in essense, stating the negative but omitting the positive. Ok, what does give salvation? And is the answer found spoken of in this verse? As to your other questions, I will give my thoughts on them, but the OP verse is the issue here, and I'd like to keep the discussion in context - and possibly in Galatians for the most part. There is no "OP" verse. The WHOLE bible must be understood as given by ONE AUTHOR who used many writers to get His message across. Simply put, ALL verses dealing with a particular subject must be understood in harmony with each other to get a correct consensus of what is truth. When one verse seems to contradict with another, then it has to be in the understanding of the verses in question that conflict with the plain verses on that subject. [/color]
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Post by genesda on Mar 30, 2004 9:03:32 GMT -5
Revelation 12:17 "And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ" These are primarily Jewish believers saved during the Tribulation period. The Antichrist is going to prevail against the saints and destroy most of them. This nothing more than your take and is not scriptural. There is no more Jew nor Greek as defined in Gal. 3:28, so the Jews have nothing more after 34 a.d. as a nation. I see you've bought the Rc Jesuit lie of "futurism" that you use to get to your conclusion. [/color] 1 John 2:3-4 "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him" 1 John 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us" Why would you divorce this pkmtyolpage from verses 9 and 10? I don't . [/color] "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us" 1 John 5:2 "By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments" See final paragraph 1 John 3:4 "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law" "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life . . . " (Rom. 6:23) Paul states that "all unrighteousness is sin" He also stated that "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God," or miss his perfect standard. Most of these questions have to do with keeping the law, and the answer to "What is the law?" is found in I John 3:23-24. "And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us" Simply broken down it speaks thus: 1. We should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ = we need to get saved 2. And love one another = We need to go out and lead others to Christ. For in winning them to Christ we are loving our neighbors as we love ourselves. A soulwinner is one that uniquely is "dwelling in him, and he in him" because a soulwinner understands the importance of walking with God and keeping himself unspotted from the world. "By the Spirit which he has given us" is the Spirit that Jesus Christ had when he "came to seek and to save that which was lost." Let me ask this of you. If I decide that it isn't wrong for me to: steal lie become envious go to bed with as many women as possible erect idols in my yard claim there are other gods
Now remember, in my mind, these are not wrong to me, am I going to make it into heaven?
If you say no, explain why. Don't elude this by saying "I don't judge anyone" because you judge people every day in one way or another. [/color]
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Post by Nicodemus on Mar 30, 2004 9:22:52 GMT -5
My intention is to deal with the verse from Galatians. If you wish to ignore that and present your own topic - than argue that, I suggest that this is unfair.
Shall I afford you the courtesy of responding to your "side" questions while you ignore mine?
You wrote:
Let me ask this of you. If I decide that it isn't wrong for me to: steal lie become envious go to bed with as many women as possible erect idols in my yard claim there are other gods
Now remember, in my mind, these are not wrong to me, am I going to make it into heaven?
If you say no, explain why. Don't elude this by saying "I don't judge anyone" because you judge people every day in one way or another.
My response to you is simply this, if we return to the verses from 1st John. If I love my neighbor as myself - even if I did believe that I could do these things (which I do not), I wouldn't do them because they would make it impossible for my neighbor to trust me to tell him the truth. I'm not worried about juding anyone - I'm worried about anyone judging me!
Paul said it wasn't wrong "to him" to eat meat offered to idols - and yet the very notion that he might do it would have sent shudders up the spine of some of the believers. So, it was for them that he refused to eat meat offered to idols.
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Post by Nicodemus on Mar 30, 2004 9:29:18 GMT -5
There is no "OP" verse. The WHOLE bible must be understood as given by ONE AUTHOR who used many writers to get His message across. Simply put, ALL verses dealing with a particular subject must be understood in harmony with each other to get a correct consensus of what is truth. When one verse seems to contradict with another, then it has to be in the understanding of the verses in question that conflict with the plain verses on that subject. [/color][/quote] Why are you hesitant to answer the question asked in the opening thread. You did respond negatively that no one is saved by keeping the law - but I'm asking - what does the verse mean. You are avoiding me. What contradiction have I claimed for Gal. 2:16. I remember making no such claim. Actually, as folks post on this thread - I am seeking to establish the context for this verse. I will expand the verse to include both halfs, which, frankly, I am surprised that no one else has done. "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified" (Gal. 2:16) Again, you offered the negative - but the positive is found in the verse. What does it mean?
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Post by genesda on Mar 30, 2004 11:05:50 GMT -5
My intention is to deal with the verse from Galatians. If you wish to ignore that and present your own topic - than argue that, I suggest that this is unfair. Shall I afford you the courtesy of responding to your "side" questions while you ignore mine? You wrote: Let me ask this of you. If I decide that it isn't wrong for me to: steal lie become envious go to bed with as many women as possible erect idols in my yard claim there are other gods Now remember, in my mind, these are not wrong to me, am I going to make it into heaven? If you say no, explain why. Don't elude this by saying "I don't judge anyone" because you judge people every day in one way or another. My response to you is simply this, if we return to the verses from 1st John. If I love my neighbor as myself - even if I did believe that I could do these things (which I do not), I wouldn't do them because they would make it impossible for my neighbor to trust me to tell him the truth. I'm not worried about juding anyone - I'm worried about anyone judging me! Paul said it wasn't wrong "to him" to eat meat offered to idols - and yet the very notion that he might do it would have sent shudders up the spine of some of the believers. So, it was for them that he refused to eat meat offered to idols. You haven't answered my questions. If you say I'm wrong, what is the standard that you use to define right from wrong? [/color]
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Post by Nicodemus on Mar 30, 2004 11:11:06 GMT -5
The standard that I am using is found in I Cor. 8:13
"Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend"
Are you really so afraid to answer to this verse?
Anyone?
"Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified" (Gal. 2:16)
What does it mean?
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Post by Nicodemus on Mar 30, 2004 11:13:16 GMT -5
Tell me something, Gene, and considering what you have told me about context - I deem this a fair question.
On Saturday when you go to your fellowship - does your preacher read Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21 before he begins to preach? Or does he ever take a single text and develop it?
Would you force something upon us that you would not expect of your own preacher?#nosmileys
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