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Post by Cohdra on Mar 29, 2004 12:47:03 GMT -5
My Cohdra, what an angry post. And then to end it with God bless? I would say that you have a problem with your first pope then, "Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons." Was he in error? Another total misinterpretation from the Fundie dept. He was referring to station in life; A king is judged in the same manner as a slave.... God generally chose (created?) the humblest personnas to be his messengers and prophets (with a few exceptions) God bless
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Post by Nicodemus on Mar 29, 2004 13:15:31 GMT -5
Another total misinterpretation from the Fundie dept. He was referring to station in life; A king is judged in the same manner as a slave.... God generally chose (created?) the humblest personnas to be his messengers and prophets (with a few exceptions) God bless I think that you need to revisit your understanding of this, Cohdra. Paul wrote: "For there is no respect of persons with God. For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law" (Rom. 2:11) "But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons." verse 24 being the promise - "Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ" (Col. 3:24-25) The people you mentioned also failed - and were judged by the same standard that God judges all sin. The only difference was that, as saved believers - they were not destroyed, but given opportunity to restore the broken fellowship. So, why is your interpretation correct without offering any scriptural proof to justify your argument?
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Post by HomeAtLast on Mar 29, 2004 13:39:27 GMT -5
Arch, So you say that God would allow his Son to be born and raised by a sinful woman? That's exactly what He did. Why do you think Mary admitted she was a sinner? She knew she was a sinner and I don't see why that is so hard to accept. The bible even states that ALL people are sinners and no one is exempt. The only reason you believe she is sinless is because Rome says so and this is exactly what I mean when I tell you that you will discard the scriptures in favor of what Rome says. You don't really believe God's word except when it agrees with Rome. [/color] When did Mary state that she was sinful? My memory is not what it used to be and I do not recall that one. I do not think so. The angel at the Annunciation greeted Mary as Hail Mary, Full of grace! Guess she was full of God's grace after all. Grace does not equal salvation. [/color] when did I say it did? Idolatry? First of all, idolatry is the worship of an innanimate object. Like kneeling and praying before statues. [/color] Nooooo...like praying to and worshipping statues. When I scrub my kitchen floor on my knees, is that worshipping my floor? Mary was a real person. You have no concept of a catholic's feelings toward Mary to even say that. We did not say that she is God. Right. You don't "worship" her, you only "venerate" her. [/color] Being facetiuos (sp?) or did you finally get it? Love or honor or venerations are very very different from "worship". There is only one God. Jesus is The Savior. Mary was the first disciple Chapter and verse please. [/color] the New Testament would be the answer. Mary is the first person to know Jesus and the only one to follow him her whole life. and every word uttered from her was pointing the way to her son, who she knew was God himself. I agree. She was a follower of Jesus, while she was alive. She is dead now and just a memory. [/color] in your opinion and interpretation. IMO she is in heaven with her beloved Son continuing to say "Do has He says" Also, remember "Honor Thy Father and Thy Mother". From the cross, Jesus made his mother our spiritual Mother. Blessings, Ann No He didn't. There is not one word of scripture that calls Mary anyone's "spiritual mother". This is more Rc wishful thinking. [/color][/quote] Again, your interpretation.
Blessings, Ann
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Post by marysia on Mar 29, 2004 14:25:47 GMT -5
I think that you need to revisit your understanding of this, Cohdra. Paul wrote: "For there is no respect of persons with God. For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law" (Rom. 2:11) "But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons." verse 24 being the promise - "Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ" (Col. 3:24-25) The people you mentioned also failed - and were judged by the same standard that God judges all sin. The only difference was that, as saved believers - they were not destroyed, but given opportunity to restore the broken fellowship. So, why is your interpretation correct without offering any scriptural proof to justify your argument? from the verses you wrote, i have to admit, i do not see where cohdra's interprutation was incorrect. we are neither judged nor saved by our station in this life.
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Post by marysia on Mar 29, 2004 14:28:22 GMT -5
Again, your interpretation.
Blessings, Ann well ann i agree but also see everyone saying we are brothers and sisters IN CHRIST. if we are brothers and sisters to Christ, with God as our Father, then if God chose Mary to be the Mother of His only Son, and His Son is my brother... Mary gave birth to our Spiritual LEader, our Spiritual "everything".
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Post by TarueBeliever on Mar 29, 2004 22:30:58 GMT -5
Ann,
By what did you mean ...
Mary is the first person to know Jesus and the only one to follow him her whole life.?
She didn't follow him her whole life did she? Just the part after she understood that he came to bring salvation. That may have been early on in the life of the child Jesus but not way back when Mary was a tiny little baby.
Scott
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Post by HomeAtLast on Mar 30, 2004 0:22:54 GMT -5
Ann, By what did you mean ... Mary is the first person to know Jesus and the only one to follow him her whole life.? She didn't follow him her whole life did she? Just the part after she understood that he came to bring salvation. That may have been early on in the life of the child Jesus but not way back when Mary was a tiny little baby. Scott Scott, Sorry meant to put His whole life....she did follow God her whole life. Blessings, Ann
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Post by genesda on Mar 30, 2004 8:17:09 GMT -5
So you say that God would allow his Son to be born and raised by a sinful woman? That's exactly what He did. Why do you think Mary admitted she was a sinner? She knew she was a sinner and I don't see why that is so hard to accept. The bible even states that ALL people are sinners and no one is exempt. The only reason you believe she is sinless is because Rome says so and this is exactly what I mean when I tell you that you will discard the scriptures in favor of what Rome says. You don't really believe God's word except when it agrees with Rome. When did Mary state that she was sinful? My memory is not what it used to be and I do not recall that one. She admitted she was a sinner when she expressed a need for a Savior. Only sinners need a Savior. Why don't you show something that says she was the only person since Adam and Eve(before they fell) that were sinless? [/color] I do not think so. The angel at the Annunciation greeted Mary as Hail Mary, Full of grace! Guess she was full of God's grace after all. Grace does not equal salvation. when did I say it did? Idolatry? First of all, idolatry is the worship of an innanimate object. Like kneeling and praying before statues. Nooooo...like praying to and worshipping statues. When I scrub my kitchen floor on my knees, is that worshipping my floor? Mary was a real person. You have no concept of a catholic's feelings toward Mary to even say that. We did not say that she is God. Right. You don't "worship" her, you only "venerate" her. Being facetiuos (sp?) or did you finally get it? Love or honor or venerations are very very different from "worship". There is only one God. Jesus is The Savior. Mary was the first disciple Chapter and verse please. the New Testament would be the answer. Mary is the first person to know Jesus and the only one to follow him her whole life. There must be at one place where she is called a disciple, so where is it? [/color] and every word uttered from her was pointing the way to her son, who she knew was God himself. There is very little in the scriptures about Mary, let alone all that she spoke, so how do you know what "every word" from her was about? [/color] I agree. She was a follower of Jesus, while she was alive. She is dead now and just a memory. in your opinion and interpretation. IMO she is in heaven with her beloved Son continuing to say "Do has He says" Also, remember "Honor Thy Father and Thy Mother". From the cross, Jesus made his mother our spiritual Mother. Blessings, Ann No He didn't. There is not one word of scripture that calls Mary anyone's "spiritual mother". This is more Rc wishful thinking. Again, your interpretation. Blessings, Ann NO! This Rome's interpretation! I'm only speaking of what is written in the scriptures and there's not ONE WORD that even alludes to what tyou claim! As I stated before, you will readily discard scripture in favor of what Rome dictates and you show it by your written replies and deny you're discarding the scriptures even when the scriptures conflict with Rome, which is on just about every detailed point. [/color]
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Post by genesda on Mar 30, 2004 8:19:44 GMT -5
well ann i agree but also see everyone saying we are brothers and sisters IN CHRIST. if we are brothers and sisters to Christ, with God as our Father, then if God chose Mary to be the Mother of His only Son, and His Son is my brother... Mary gave birth to our Spiritual LEader, our Spiritual "everything". There are a lot of jumps here. Before Mary can be your mother, she would have to give birth to you. Mary is never called "spiritual leader" anywhere except in Rome and by it's followers. [/color]
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Post by genesda on Mar 30, 2004 8:20:50 GMT -5
Ann, By what did you mean ... Mary is the first person to know Jesus and the only one to follow him her whole life.? She didn't follow him her whole life did she? Just the part after she understood that he came to bring salvation. That may have been early on in the life of the child Jesus but not way back when Mary was a tiny little baby. Scott Rc's get carried away by their own hype. [/color]
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Post by marysia on Mar 30, 2004 8:54:41 GMT -5
well ann i agree but also see everyone saying we are brothers and sisters IN CHRIST. if we are brothers and sisters to Christ, with God as our Father, then if God chose Mary to be the Mother of His only Son, and His Son is my brother... Mary gave birth to our Spiritual LEader, our Spiritual "everything". There are a lot of jumps here. Before Mary can be your mother, she would have to give birth to you. Mary is never called "spiritual leader" anywhere except in Rome and by it's followers. [/color][/quote] must have missed a word -- I never said Mary was our spiritual leader - however she did give birth to Him. so from what i gather, God is not your Father because his sperm did not attach with your mothers? i'm confused, talk about jumps. gene, haven't you ever had a friend who you were so close to that their mom was also "your mom". if not, i'm sorry you've never experiened that wonderful gift. if you have - it's similar to that thought.
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Post by marysia on Mar 30, 2004 8:57:37 GMT -5
Ann, By what did you mean ... Mary is the first person to know Jesus and the only one to follow him her whole life.? She didn't follow him her whole life did she? Just the part after she understood that he came to bring salvation. That may have been early on in the life of the child Jesus but not way back when Mary was a tiny little baby. Scott well scott, in a way i beg to differ (what a concept ) I believe Mary followed God all her life and when He sent the angel to her and she knew she was to be the Mother of His Son, she was following God. however, once it was told that her Son was to be the Saviour of all, then yes, she continued to follow God and probably prayed that she was raising His Son as He wanted. However -- she was the first human person to know and believe -- this child IS the Son of God.
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Post by marysia on Mar 30, 2004 9:06:21 GMT -5
When did Mary state that she was sinful? My memory is not what it used to be and I do not recall that one. She admitted she was a sinner when she expressed a need for a Savior. Only sinners need a Savior. Why don't you show something that says she was the only person since Adam and Eve(before they fell) that were sinless? [/color] [/quote] ah, so God could not have saved her prior to her life even beginning? I do not put limitations on God. if you can open your mind to this thought just for a moment... you live your life and have never sinned, gracious your a young person and times not being as the are today - there really isn't a lot of things to sin with or about out there... God sends to you an angel and what is written says that this angel tells you you are to be the mother of His Son. what else did the angel say?! what did this mother keep within her heart? most true mothers i know (most women for that matter) keep much locked in their own hearts. Who is to say - that at the time she was given the great news, other things we not revealed to her heart - which made her say that God (not Christ) was her saviour. gene, i can not fathom putting a limit on what God can do and has done. this "Mary issue" and many others will never be figured out while we are on this earth. I thank God for His Son and the wonderful people who have been able to "witness" either in person or through books about them - which include the Bible. one day, we will have the answers to the little qeustions. I thank God that no matter what - we have the answer to the real question -- Jesus Christ is the answer to that question.
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Post by genesda on Mar 30, 2004 11:35:43 GMT -5
ah, so God could not have saved her prior to her life even beginning? I do not put limitations on God. No, but you attribute many assumption to Him as though they were facts. For as person to bve saved, they must first be lost, as was Mary and all other humans. [/color] if you can open your mind to this thought just for a moment... you live your life and have never sinned, This takes more than an open mind. It requires a Rc imagination. [/color] gracious your a young person and times not being as the are today - there really isn't a lot of things to sin with or about out there... There was just as much then as there is today. Material things aren't needed for anyone to sin. ALL sin originates in the mind first. [/color] God sends to you an angel and what is written says that this angel tells you you are to be the mother of His Son. what else did the angel say?! what did this mother keep within her heart? most true mothers i know (most women for that matter) keep much locked in their own hearts. Who is to say - that at the time she was given the great news, other things we not revealed to her heart - which made her say that God (not Christ) was her saviour. I'm sure this wasn't the first time Mary heard about God and the plan of salvation. [/color] gene, i can not fathom putting a limit on what God can do and has done. Neither do I, but I have to believe God wouldn't tell us one thing in the scriptures and then do the opposite in practice. That's a human trait. [/color] this "Mary issue" and many others will never be figured out while we are on this earth. It has already been figured out by those who accept the scriptural account of things. You, on the other hand, accept all sorts of "mysteries" that Rome feeds you which are contrary to scripture and this keeps you confused [/color] I thank God for His Son and the wonderful people who have been able to "witness" either in person or through books about them - which include the Bible. I am glad you saw fit to give God's word some credit, even if it wasn't your first thought. [/color] one day, we will have the answers to the little qeustions. I thank God that no matter what - we have the answer to the real question -- Jesus Christ is the answer to that question. Now if you could only stick to Jesus and give HIM all of your undivided attention instead of spreading it around, that would be great. [/color]
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Post by HomeAtLast on Mar 30, 2004 11:44:09 GMT -5
ah, so God could not have saved her prior to her life even beginning? I do not put limitations on God. No, but you attribute many assumption to Him as though they were facts. For as person to bve saved, they must first be lost, as was Mary and all other humans. [/color] if you can open your mind to this thought just for a moment... you live your life and have never sinned, This takes more than an open mind. It requires a Rc imagination. [/color] gracious your a young person and times not being as the are today - there really isn't a lot of things to sin with or about out there... There was just as much then as there is today. Material things aren't needed for anyone to sin. ALL sin originates in the mind first. [/color] God sends to you an angel and what is written says that this angel tells you you are to be the mother of His Son. what else did the angel say?! what did this mother keep within her heart? most true mothers i know (most women for that matter) keep much locked in their own hearts. Who is to say - that at the time she was given the great news, other things we not revealed to her heart - which made her say that God (not Christ) was her saviour. I'm sure this wasn't the first time Mary heard about God and the plan of salvation. [/color] gene, i can not fathom putting a limit on what God can do and has done. Neither do I, but I have to believe God wouldn't tell us one thing in the scriptures and then do the opposite in practice. That's a human trait. [/color] this "Mary issue" and many others will never be figured out while we are on this earth. It has already been figured out by those who accept the scriptural account of things. You, on the other hand, accept all sorts of "mysteries" that Rome feeds you which are contrary to scripture and this keeps you confused [/color] I thank God for His Son and the wonderful people who have been able to "witness" either in person or through books about them - which include the Bible. I am glad you saw fit to give God's word some credit, even if it wasn't your first thought. [/color] one day, we will have the answers to the little qeustions. I thank God that no matter what - we have the answer to the real question -- Jesus Christ is the answer to that question. Now if you could only stick to Jesus and give HIM all of your undivided attention instead of spreading it around, that would be great. [/color][/quote] gene, Still stuck on the misconception that Mary is trying to get people away from her son, huh? Mary is always pointing to her son. Tell me one time that Mary was not with her son when he was preaching to the people. Tell me one time that she told people to follow her instead of Jesus. Blessings, Ann
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