|
Post by Cohdra on Jul 8, 2003 21:29:29 GMT -5
God first, Bible, then tradition
Bibliolotry
Definition: The term bibliolatry is derived from the word idolatry, or the worship of idols. Thus, bibliolatry refers to the worship of the bible - taking it so seriously and so literally that it becomes the entire focus of religious devotion, even to the exclusion of everything else. Fundamentalism is often accused of engaging in bibliolatry.
I fear that, when Christ comes, if He does one small thing that goes against the teachings of "Bible-believing" Christians, they will shake their own bibles in his face, just as the pharisees did. Their bible too (their interpretation), became more important than God Himself. So, they failed to recognize him. Only his sheep will know him. It will be the same at his second coming; His sheep will know him.
God bless
|
|
|
Post by Cohdra on Jul 8, 2003 21:34:49 GMT -5
Another note; The bible is the written testament of the word of God
Christ is the WORD
Christ comes before the bible
When Christ did different things, like break the Sabbath, condemn plural marriage, etc This shocked the pharisees (self-righteous men that they were)
When Christ comes again, don't be the pharisees.
God bless
|
|
|
Post by BrianDaniel on Jul 9, 2003 1:03:23 GMT -5
What is perfected and fully furnished? The man of God, not the Bible. Can there be different levels of perfection? Are there different levels of fullness? It's got it all. There is nothing else to get.
|
|
|
Post by BrianDaniel on Jul 9, 2003 1:06:26 GMT -5
Can there be such a thing as Bibolatry? As important as the word of God may be it is not God. It is the closest thing we have here on earth but it is limited to human language expressed through customs of particular times and places. If one doesn't take it any further than Josiah did in 2 Kings 22, then it is biblical and not Bibolatry.
|
|
|
Post by BrianDaniel on Jul 9, 2003 1:25:14 GMT -5
Another note; The bible is the written testament of the word of God Christ is the WORD Christ comes before the bible When Christ did different things, like break the Sabbath, condemn plural marriage, etc This shocked the pharisees (self-righteous men that they were) When Christ comes again, don't be the pharisees. God bless That is a tricky subject. Jesus is the "Word" or "logos" in Greek (Strong's 3056). The spoken or written word, or "rhema" (Strong's 4487) has a different meaning than "logos." You are treating two subjects as equal based on the translation of two words with different meaning attached that are translated as "word."
|
|
|
Post by guidemeLord on Jul 9, 2003 1:48:12 GMT -5
In the last Chapter of the Gospel according to John, he admits that Christ did much more then even he recorded. No one even attempts to cover everything Jesus taught. In the last chapter of John.. John states that what Jesus DID would take books, not that there was more of Jesus' Doctrine that was not recorded. The doctrine of the Word is contained in the Bible and it coupled with the direction of the Holy Spirit is all you need to confess Jesus as Christ and obtain eternal life in Him. Let's not confuse the issue here by reading into the scripture. John 21:25 And there are also other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen. John 20:30,31 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his diciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through His name.
|
|
|
Post by guidemeLord on Jul 9, 2003 1:50:53 GMT -5
What is perfected and fully furnished? The man of God, not the Bible. Yes a man of God is perfected and fully furnished.. as in the Word of God/scriptures/BIBLE is all he needs to be perfected and fully furnished as a follower of Christ and heir to the throne.
|
|
|
Post by BrianDaniel on Jul 9, 2003 1:56:47 GMT -5
I think that's what he meant. Through Scripture (the Bible) the man of God is perfected and fully furnished. 2 Tim 3:16 does not say, "Scripture and Apostolic tradition" or "Scripture and the Catechism" or "Scripture and Papal decree" or "Scripture and the Book of Mormon" or "Scripture and the writings of Ellen G. White" or "Scripture and..." anything else. According to the Bible we need Scripture alone = sola scriptura. Amen
|
|
|
Post by BrianDaniel on Jul 9, 2003 1:58:28 GMT -5
I fail to see the exclusivity of Scripture that you claim to see in this pkmtyolpage. Can you show me where this excludes everything else besides Scripture? Is this close enough? Titus 1:14 (KJV) Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
|
|
|
Post by BrianDaniel on Jul 9, 2003 2:00:37 GMT -5
If this piece of Scripture is wrong then other pieces of Scripture may be wrong as well so we might as well throw the whole thing out and start worshipping trees. *edited for spellingNot just trees, monkeys too!
|
|
|
Post by BrianDaniel on Jul 9, 2003 2:04:23 GMT -5
Sola Scriptura would be tough for all the Christians who lived between Christ and the time of the Printing Press and couldn't read. Since there were few bibles and the ones that did exist were very expensive and took years to make. How did those Christians learn the Gospels except from learning what the Church taught them? It seems like God would be limiting Himself to a certain culture (a literary culture such as the world has been since the Renaissance). What about other countries? India and Asia. The Bible wasn't translated into other languages (besides latin) until the 1200's. Ummm, wasn't the Bible read as part of the pkmtyolm? My 4 year old daughter can't read, but I can read the Bible to her. It doesn't matter if you are able to go to the store and buy a Bible. It matters that the message of the Bible gets into your ears so it can sink into your heart. I believed in and confessed Jesus as Lord before I had ever opened the Bible, because someone told me about what the Bible says. And if any of us are not sharing our faith, then shame on us!
|
|
|
Post by Metanoia on Jul 9, 2003 6:52:04 GMT -5
Can there be different levels of perfection? Are there different levels of fullness? It's got it all. There is nothing else to get. The argument is not wether perfect means perfect or full means full, but how do we get to the state of perfection and fully furnished. It is clear that from the pkmtyolpage that Scripture is A way to reach that state, but it does not say it is the way. If we are to use the logic used by some in interpreting this pkmtyolpage, then wouldn't James 1:4 pose a contradiction if we are to use the methodology and deductive reasoning that has been presented? James 1:4 And let perseverance be perfect, so that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.
|
|
|
Post by BrianDaniel on Jul 9, 2003 9:55:33 GMT -5
The argument is not wether perfect means perfect or full means full, but how do we get to the state of perfection and fully furnished. It is clear that from the pkmtyolpage that Scripture is A way to reach that state, but it does not say it is the way. If we are to use the logic used by some in interpreting this pkmtyolpage, then wouldn't James 1:4 pose a contradiction if we are to use the methodology and deductive reasoning that has been presented? James 1:4 And let perseverance be perfect, so that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing. James 1:4 is about a different subject. It is an admonition to patience, 2 Tim 3:17 is about scripture. There can be different areas of perfection, but not different levels. 2 Tim. 3:16-17 (KJV) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: [17] That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. James 1:4 (KJV) But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.
|
|
|
Post by Metanoia on Jul 9, 2003 10:03:49 GMT -5
James 1:4 is about a different subject. It is an admonition to patience, 2 Tim 3:17 is about scripture. There can be different areas of perfection, but not different levels. 2 Tim. 3:16-17 (KJV) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: [17] That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. James 1:4 (KJV) But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing. So the Bible is for our perfection and completeness when it comes to doing every good work. So is that what sola scriptura is all about - doing good works?
|
|
|
Post by Deborah4God on Jul 9, 2003 10:32:56 GMT -5
So the Bible is for our perfection and completeness when it comes to doing every good work. So is that what sola scriptura is all about - doing good works? the bible is the living , inspired word, of God's and about" obeying God "over man- trusting God over man- having faith in God over man- and following the example Jesus set forth for us,-over man and man's religious traditions- it's all in the Good Book Called The Bible- and it is complete ! We need nothing else ,especially doctine of ,and from man- Titus 1:9 He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it Titus 2:1 You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine. Matthew 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. Mark 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. Romans 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. You can choose to believe and trust the word of God's or not over man , He gave you " Free Will " Religion man seeking God- Gospel- God reaching out for man- Religion corrupt- Gospel inspired word of God and pure-
|
|