logos
Full Member
Posts: 191
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Post by logos on Jul 8, 2003 12:22:00 GMT -5
What do you think? Is this teaching found in the Bible? Or can the Bible refute this teaching? Did the early Christians believe this? Or did Martin Luther come up with the doctrine?
BE NICE...AND LOGICAL
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Post by BrianDaniel on Jul 8, 2003 12:33:04 GMT -5
What do you think? Is this teaching found in the Bible? Or can the Bible refute this teaching? Did the early Christians believe this? Or did Martin Luther come up with the doctrine? BE NICE...AND LOGICAL2 Tim. 3:15 (KJV) And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. The early-early Christians did not have the New Testament right away. They had the Apostles whom Jesus sent to bear witness of the resurrection. Before the Apostles all died, their teaching was written in the books that now make up the New Testament. I don't think the Bible refutes sola scriptura. 2 Thes. 2:15 (KJV) Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle. The NT epistles comprise the Apostolic teaching that would have been found at various times by word or epistle.
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Post by Metanoia on Jul 8, 2003 13:35:35 GMT -5
The Bible is true. It is the basis of our faith.It is useful to learn about God and the necessity of Christ as our Savior. But to believe that it contained everything that Christ taught to his disciples is fundementally wrong. In the last Chapter of the Gospel according to John, he admits that Christ did much more then even he recorded. No one even attempts to cover everything Jesus taught.
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Post by Pietro on Jul 8, 2003 13:41:11 GMT -5
The Old Testament comes from the Jewish traditions and it is not surprising that they are then "the chosen people" and given permission to kill non Jews. Other sacred writtings come from other traditions, the Vedas, the Koran, the Tao te Ching, etc. It seems to me that God cannot be contained in one tradion or one book as much as we would like to fit hi in there.
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Post by BrianDaniel on Jul 8, 2003 13:46:42 GMT -5
The Bible is true. It is the basis of our faith.It is useful to learn about God and the necessity of Christ as our Savior. But to believe that it contained everything that Christ taught to his disciples is fundementally wrong. In the last Chapter of the Gospel according to John, he admits that Christ did much more then even he recorded. No one even attempts to cover everything Jesus taught. (2Ti 3:16-17 LITV) All Scripture is God-breathed and profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, so that the man of God may be perfected, being fully furnishedfor every good work. The Bible says perfected and fully furnished.
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Post by Deborah4God on Jul 8, 2003 14:02:07 GMT -5
The Bible is true. It is the basis of our faith.It is useful to learn about God and the necessity of Christ as our Savior. But to believe that it contained everything that Christ taught to his disciples is fundementally wrong. Heaven and Earth will pkmtyolp away, but My Words will NEVER pkmtyolp away- Only God's word has been granted an equal place with His Name- Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth will pkmtyolp away, but my words will never pkmtyolp away. Mark 13:31 Heaven and earth will pkmtyolp away, but my words will never pkmtyolp away Luke 21:33 Heaven and earth will pkmtyolp away, but my words will never pkmtyolp away. The Bible is no mere book, but a living book, with a power that conquers all that oppse it. I believe that a perfect GOD has given a perfert WORD- The scripture both Old and New Testaments are verbally inspired of God and are the revelation of God to man, the infallible, authoritative rule of faith and conduct- and nothing else come close and should not be used- 2 Timothy 3 15and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. 1 Thessalonians 2 13And we also thank God continually because, when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but as it actually is, the word of God, which is at work in you who believe. 2 Peter 1 21For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit. Our trust should be put in God, the God of the Bible- The God of love, truth, mercy grace and forgiveness- not the word of .....ANY man!
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Post by Metanoia on Jul 8, 2003 15:10:01 GMT -5
(2Ti 3:16-17 LITV) All Scripture is God-breathed and profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, so that the man of God may be perfected, being fully furnishedfor every good work. The Bible says perfected and fully furnished. What is perfected and fully furnished? The man of God, not the Bible.
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Post by Pietro on Jul 8, 2003 15:54:30 GMT -5
Can there be such a thing as Bibolatry? As important as the word of God may be it is not God. It is the closest thing we have here on earth but it is limited to human language expressed through customs of particular times and places.
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Post by stevec on Jul 8, 2003 16:27:25 GMT -5
What is perfected and fully furnished? The man of God, not the Bible. I think that's what he meant. Through Scripture (the Bible) the man of God is perfected and fully furnished. 2 Tim 3:16 does not say, "Scripture and Apostolic tradition" or "Scripture and the Catechism" or "Scripture and Papal decree" or "Scripture and the Book of Mormon" or "Scripture and the writings of Ellen G. White" or "Scripture and..." anything else. According to the Bible we need Scripture alone = sola scriptura.
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Post by billbo1970 on Jul 8, 2003 16:32:47 GMT -5
Heaven and Earth will pkmtyolp away, but My Words will NEVER pkmtyolp away- Only God's word has been granted an equal place with His Name- Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth will pkmtyolp away, but my words will never pkmtyolp away. Mark 13:31 Heaven and earth will pkmtyolp away, but my words will never pkmtyolp away Luke 21:33 Heaven and earth will pkmtyolp away, but my words will never pkmtyolp away. The Bible is no mere book, but a living book, with a power that conquers all that oppse it. I believe that a perfect GOD has given a perfert WORD- The scripture both Old and New Testaments are verbally inspired of God and are the revelation of God to man, the infallible, authoritative rule of faith and conduct- and nothing else come close and should not be used- 2 Timothy 3 15and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. 1 Thessalonians 2 13And we also thank God continually because, when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but as it actually is, the word of God, which is at work in you who believe. 2 Peter 1 21For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit. Our trust should be put in God, the God of the Bible- The God of love, truth, mercy grace and forgiveness- not the word of .....ANY man! Well said!
PIC, Bill [/color]
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Post by billbo1970 on Jul 8, 2003 16:34:01 GMT -5
I think that's what he meant. Through Scripture (the Bible) the man of God is perfected and fully furnished. 2 Tim 3:16 does not say, "Scripture and Apostolic tradition" or "Scripture and the Catechism" or "Scripture and Papal decree" or "Scripture and the Book of Mormon" or "Scripture and the writings of Ellen G. White" or "Scripture and..." anything else. According to the Bible we need Scripture alone = sola scriptura. Well said!
PIC, Bill [/color]
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Post by Metanoia on Jul 8, 2003 16:38:55 GMT -5
I think that's what he meant. Through Scripture (the Bible) the man of God is perfected and fully furnished. 2 Tim 3:16 does not say, "Scripture and Apostolic tradition" or "Scripture and the Catechism" or "Scripture and Papal decree" or "Scripture and the Book of Mormon" or "Scripture and the writings of Ellen G. White" or "Scripture and..." anything else. According to the Bible we need Scripture alone = sola scriptura. I fail to see the exclusivity of Scripture that you claim to see in this pkmtyolpage. Can you show me where this excludes everything else besides Scripture?
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Post by stevec on Jul 8, 2003 17:17:36 GMT -5
I fail to see the exclusivity of Scripture that you claim to see in this pkmtyolpage. Can you show me where this excludes everything else besides Scripture? I don't understand your confusion but I'll try again: (2 Ti 3:16-17 LITV) All Scripture is God-breathed and profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, so that the man of God may be perfected, being fully furnished for every good work.It's a matter of simple deductive reasoning. Break the sentence down--"All Scripture is God-breathed...so that the man of God may be perfected.... fully furnished..." (note bold type) and the exclusivity is readily apparent. It's a Catch-22 in reverse. From this sentence we may logically deduce that if something more than Scripture were required for the man of God to perfected and fully furnished, it would not use the words "perfected" and "fully". It would say something along the lines of, "....the man of God may be almost perfected, being mostly furnished, only lacking the books or teachings or doctrines of ______ church...". If something more than Scripture were required then the man of God would not be perfected and fully furnished by Scripture alone and this piece of Scripture would be wrong. If this piece of Scripture is wrong then other pieces of Scripture may be wrong as well so we might as well throw the whole thing out and start worshipping trees. *edited for spelling
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logos
Full Member
Posts: 191
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Post by logos on Jul 8, 2003 17:28:22 GMT -5
Sola Scriptura would be tough for all the Christians who lived between Christ and the time of the Printing Press and couldn't read. Since there were few bibles and the ones that did exist were very expensive and took years to make. How did those Christians learn the Gospels except from learning what the Church taught them? It seems like God would be limiting Himself to a certain culture (a literary culture such as the world has been since the Renaissance). What about other countries? India and Asia. The Bible wasn't translated into other languages (besides latin) until the 1200's.
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Post by Deborah4God on Jul 8, 2003 20:03:54 GMT -5
Romans 15 4For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope Colossians 2:22 These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings 1 Corinthians 11:2 I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the teachings,[ 11:2 Or traditions] just as I pkmtyolped them on to you Matthew 15:9 They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men. Mark 7:7 They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men Proverbs 7:2 Keep my commands and you will live; guard my teachings as the apple of your eye.
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