|
|
Post by christian on Mar 7, 2005 9:27:55 GMT -5
I used to believe in them, even as a Christian, until recently. If God knows about everything that's going to happen to us in advance, then perhaps he also knows whether we are going to win the national or state lottery if we take part.
|
|
|
|
Post by PhilipDC78 on Mar 7, 2005 10:30:39 GMT -5
What would you define as luck, or chance?
For instance, if God knows what will happen, but does not directly intervene in making it happen, but it merely happens by chance, then is it luck because God still knew it was going to happen?
|
|
|
|
Post by christian on Mar 7, 2005 11:57:24 GMT -5
What would you define as luck, or chance? For instance, if God knows what will happen, but does not directly intervene in making it happen, but it merely happens by chance, then is it luck because God still knew it was going to happen? Not really sure. I've tended to think of a person's good fortune as he/she being "lucky" and a person's misfortune as he/she being "unlucky", and that these things happened by "chance" An employee might appear to have a very good "chance" of being promoted, but in the end isn't. It could be said that he was "unfortuante" or "unlucky". "Chance" is related to "luck". A chance event is not consciously planned for and could prove lucky or unlucky, such as meeting a potential future spouse. But what if all supposed lucky, or unlucky, chance events are actually the result of the deliberate scheming or planning of others who are either human and/or supernatural. We may or may not even be aware of them. But it seems to me that since everything happens due to the principle of "cause and effect", and God knows everything we are ever going to do, well before we do, and knows what the outcomes are going to be, as well as having established all the Laws that govern our universe, He is so Sovereign over all of His Creation that perhaps luck and chance are products of our own somewhat limited, human, imagination?  Man, that last sentence is the longest sentence I've ever produced. I hope you understand what I'm saying. God Bless, Andy. |
|
|
|
Post by PhilipDC78 on Mar 7, 2005 14:28:59 GMT -5
Not really sure. I've tended to think of a person's good fortune as he/she being "lucky" and a person's misfortune as he/she being "unlucky", and that these things happened by "chance" An employee might appear to have a very good "chance" of being promoted, but in the end isn't. It could be said that he was "unfortuante" or "unlucky". "Chance" is related to "luck". A chance event is not consciously planned for and could prove lucky or unlucky, such as meeting a potential future spouse. But what if all supposed lucky, or unlucky, chance events are actually the result of the deliberate scheming or planning of others who are either human and/or supernatural. We may or may not even be aware of them. But it seems to me that since everything happens due to the principle of "cause and effect", and God knows everything we are ever going to do, well before we do, and knows what the outcomes are going to be, as well as having established all the Laws that govern our universe, He is so Sovereign over all of His Creation that perhaps luck and chance are products of our own somewhat limited, human, imagination? Man, that last sentence is the longest sentence I've ever produced. I hope you understand what I'm saying. God Bless, Andy. Yes, I did manage to get through that sentence.  I think you have a point there. What we perceive as chance, or luck, could very well be the machinations of someone else, whether that be manmade or spiritual. That was the whole reasoning behind my question to you. Since we cannot understand how God can know what is going to happen and yet still allow us the free will to choose. That seems self-contradictory. If God knows our decisions before we make them, then he must be directing them, but then that would disallow the fact that we have free will. |
|
|
|
Post by christian on Mar 8, 2005 6:23:17 GMT -5
Oops, I totally forgot about this response of mine to Keikikoka being my longest ever sentence!:Re: Recent Disaster ("The End Days thread") « Reply #63 on: 12.01.05 at 12:37:52 » "That is debatable. He [Jesus Christ] may come tomorrow or in 1000 years." Or in the next ten years, judging by the rising crime rates in the developed World, the situation in Iraq, the progress towards a European Constitution and the "road map" for peace in the Middle East, the decline of Christian moral values in the World, even in so-called "Christian" countries, the ever greater increase in the spread of sexually transmitted diseases in the World, including Aids and chlamydia, particularly amongst the young, the increase in the occurrence of natural disasters and weather extremes (it was a bit windy in your country last year!), tsunami on boxing day of last year, the interest in human cloning amongst scientists, the spread of alternative religions, especially those that come under the umbrella of "New Age" spirituality, the increasing acceptance of gay "marriage", even in some parts of the "Christian" Church, abortion.......the list goes on, and on, and on. Andy.
|
|
|
|
Post by christian on Mar 8, 2005 7:36:11 GMT -5
Yes, I did manage to get through that sentence. I think you have a point there. What we perceive as chance, or luck, could very well be the machinations of someone else, whether that be manmade or spiritual. That was the whole reasoning behind my question to you. Since we cannot understand how God can know what is going to happen and yet still allow us the free will to choose. That seems self-contradictory. If God knows our decisions before we make them, then he must be directing them, but then that would disallow the fact that we have free will. We agree on something!!!! Seriously, though, I believe that God has placed Laws on us that limit our free-will and He had already decided what qualities we would have as individuals before He made us. The only way that I, with my limited human mind, can make sense of how God can know everything we are ever going to do is this: he has placed in each one of us core strengths and weaknesses that determine our character, and these are like a "formula" that only He knows fully, and Satan is allowed to test us according to our personality type/"formula" . Also, God has created Satan's personality with its core strengths and weaknesses and placed certain limits on him. Did God create evil? He created Lucifer, but not the evil being he became. Satan abuses the abilities that God has given him. But he is still useful to God for bringing about His Will in matters. One final thought from me: When I consider all this, and all the people God has created, and has yet to create, it causes me to be in wondrous awe of Him and His creation. We humans can't begin to comprehend His thoughts. They are too great to measure, even with our supercomputers. Andy. |
|
|
|
Post by christian on Mar 15, 2005 6:58:04 GMT -5
I think God will often influence our lives by allowing certain things to happen in our lives that are either good or bad. But He won't ever interfere with our free-will that He has given us.
Andy.
|
|
I think you have a point there. What we perceive as chance, or luck, could very well be the machinations of someone else, whether that be manmade or spiritual. That was the whole reasoning behind my question to you. Since we cannot understand how God can know what is going to happen and yet still allow us the free will to choose. That seems self-contradictory. If God knows our decisions before we make them, then he must be directing them, but then that would disallow the fact that we have free will.