Kathy
Junior Member
Take no man's opinion, study God's Word for yourself.
Posts: 99
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Post by Kathy on Apr 6, 2004 21:00:28 GMT -5
Please try and give Scripture references for your belief.
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Kathy
Junior Member
Take no man's opinion, study God's Word for yourself.
Posts: 99
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Post by Kathy on Apr 6, 2004 21:24:36 GMT -5
I believe Christians will go through the Tribulation according to Scripture:
1 Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
What? Believers not supprised by Christ's return?
Believers will know, because they are reading the Bible and watching for the true Christ to return.
Satan has started his deception:
1. Many people are reading the Left Behind books and others that focus on a pre-tribulation rapture. Yet, they are not Studying the Bible to see what it says.
2. We are plainly told the lost are gathered first, yet, people still want to be "gathered" before the Tribulation.
Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
3. Before we are gathered, the man of sin must be reveiled:
2 Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 2 Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 2 Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is [/i]
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Post by genesda on Apr 7, 2004 5:09:16 GMT -5
I believe Christians will go through the Tribulation according to Scripture: 1 Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
What? Believers not supprised by Christ's return? Believers will know, because they are reading the Bible and watching for the true Christ to return. Satan has started his deception: 1. Many people are reading the Left Behind books and others that focus on a pre-tribulation rapture. Yet, they are not Studying the Bible to see what it says. 2. We are plainly told the lost are gathered first, yet, people still want to be "gathered" before the Tribulation. Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn. 3. Before we are gathered, the man of sin must be reveiled: 2 Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 2 Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 2 Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is [/i] I agree with you that the return of Jesus will be His second coming and that the "rapture" theories are nothing but Satan's deception convincing people that they will have a second chance, or more time before they have to repent.
The papacy fits the verses perfectly. He does "sit in the temple of God showing that he is God".
They've even made statments claiming the papacy is "God on Earth". [/color]
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Post by Brandi on Apr 28, 2004 11:45:33 GMT -5
I totally agree with you Kathy and my family and I are having a hard time finding a church that believes this way too. I was going to a Baptist church and like most, they teach that we will be taken out before the tribulation.
Brandi
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Post by HomeAtLast on Apr 28, 2004 13:03:45 GMT -5
I believe Christians will go through the Tribulation according to Scripture: 1 Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
What? Believers not supprised by Christ's return? Believers will know, because they are reading the Bible and watching for the true Christ to return. Satan has started his deception: 1. Many people are reading the Left Behind books and others that focus on a pre-tribulation rapture. Yet, they are not Studying the Bible to see what it says. 2. We are plainly told the lost are gathered first, yet, people still want to be "gathered" before the Tribulation. Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn. 3. Before we are gathered, the man of sin must be reveiled: 2 Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 2 Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 2 Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is [/i] I agree with you that the return of Jesus will be His second coming and that the "rapture" theories are nothing but Satan's deception convincing people that they will have a second chance, or more time before they have to repent.
The papacy fits the verses perfectly. He does "sit in the temple of God showing that he is God".
They've even made statments claiming the papacy is "God on Earth". [/color][/quote] LOL gene, You just crack me up!! the RCC agrees with you on this issue, yet you have to make sure to get those misconception in there everytime, don't you. The pope has never claimed to be God!!! He is the Vicar of Christ. He serves Christ. Why can you not go by what they say and not interject your misconceptions? Why do you insist on turning every thread into a hate thread? Don't answer that. It was rhetorical. I am sure I know what you will say. Blessings, Ann
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Post by HomeAtLast on Apr 28, 2004 13:05:26 GMT -5
I totally agree with you Kathy and my family and I are having a hard time finding a church that believes this way too. I was going to a Baptist church and like most, they teach that we will be taken out before the tribulation. Brandi Brandi, There is a book called "The Rapture Trap" by Paul Thigpen that explains it quite well. I totally agree. Blessings, Ann
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Post by genesda on Apr 29, 2004 4:31:36 GMT -5
LOL gene, You just crack me up!! the RCC agrees with you on this issue, yet you have to make sure to get those misconception in there everytime, don't you. The pope has never claimed to be God!!! He is the Vicar of Christ. He serves Christ. Why can you not go by what they say and not interject your misconceptions? Why do you insist on turning every thread into a hate thread? Don't answer that. It was rhetorical. I am sure I know what you will say. Blessings, Ann It's not a misconception that the papes are the "man of sin", one at a time, or singularly. I never said the pope "said" he was God, but popes are thought of as the same as God. If you don't think that way, good, but you don't speak for all Rc's for all time. The quotes below speak for themselves:
The following extracts are from authoritative works by Catholic dignitaries concerning the title and position of their leader. "All the names which are attributed to Christ In Scripture, implying His supremacy over the church, are also attributed to the Pope." Bellamin, "On the Authority of Councils," book 2, Chapter 17. "For thou art the shepherd, thou are the physician, thou art the director, thou art the husbandman, finally thou art another God on earth." Labbe and Cossart's "History of the Vol. XIV' col. 109. For the title "Lord God the Pope," see a gloss on the Extravagantes of Pope John XXII, title 14, chapter 4, Declaramus. In an Antwerp edition of the Extravagantes, the words, "Dominum Deum Nostrum Papam" (Our Lord God the Pope") occur in column 153. In a Paris edition, they occur in column 140. "Hence the Pope is crowned with a triple crown, as king of heaven, and earth, and purgatory." Prompta Bibliotheca," Feraris, Vol. VI, pg. 26, article "Papa." In a pkmtyolpage which is included in the Roman Catholic Canon Law, Pope Innocent III declares that the Roman pontiff is "the vicegerent upon earth, not of a mere man, but of very God;" and in a gloss on the pkmtyolpage it is explained that this is because he is the vicegerent of Christ, Who is "very God and very man." See Decretales Domini Gregorli PapaeIX (Decretals of the Lord Pope Gregory IX), liberi, de translatione Episcoporum, (on the transference of Bishops),title 7, chapter 3; Corpus Juris Canonice (2nd Leipzig ed., 1881), col. 99; (Paris, 1612), tom. 2, Decretales, col. 205. 1123. Papacy----claims made for the pope----power to modify divine laws source: Lucius Ferraris, "papa", art. 2, in his Prompta Bibliothecia ("handy library") vol. 6 (venetiis [venice] Gaspar Storti,1772) p.29. Latin.
The pope is of so great authorityand power that he can modify, explain,or interpret even divine laws.......Petrus de Ancharano [1416] very clearly asserts this in Consil.373, no.3 verso: The pope can modify (change) divine law, since his power is not of man, but of God, and he acts in the place of God on Earth, with the fullest power of binding and loosing his sheep.
Tell me you don't recognize some of the names above.
[/color]
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Post by HomeAtLast on Apr 29, 2004 9:28:41 GMT -5
LOL gene, You just crack me up!! the RCC agrees with you on this issue, yet you have to make sure to get those misconception in there everytime, don't you. The pope has never claimed to be God!!! He is the Vicar of Christ. He serves Christ. Why can you not go by what they say and not interject your misconceptions? Why do you insist on turning every thread into a hate thread? Don't answer that. It was rhetorical. I am sure I know what you will say. Blessings, Ann It's not a misconception that the papes are the "man of sin", one at a time, or singularly. I never said the pope "said" he was God, but popes are thought of as the same as God. If you don't think that way, good, but you don't speak for all Rc's for all time. The quotes below speak for themselves:
The following extracts are from authoritative works by Catholic dignitaries concerning the title and position of their leader. "All the names which are attributed to Christ In Scripture, implying His supremacy over the church, are also attributed to the Pope." Bellamin, "On the Authority of Councils," book 2, Chapter 17. "For thou art the shepherd, thou are the physician, thou art the director, thou art the husbandman, finally thou art another God on earth." Labbe and Cossart's "History of the Vol. XIV' col. 109. For the title "Lord God the Pope," see a gloss on the Extravagantes of Pope John XXII, title 14, chapter 4, Declaramus. In an Antwerp edition of the Extravagantes, the words, "Dominum Deum Nostrum Papam" (Our Lord God the Pope") occur in column 153. In a Paris edition, they occur in column 140. "Hence the Pope is crowned with a triple crown, as king of heaven, and earth, and purgatory." Prompta Bibliotheca," Feraris, Vol. VI, pg. 26, article "Papa." In a pkmtyolpage which is included in the Roman Catholic Canon Law, Pope Innocent III declares that the Roman pontiff is "the vicegerent upon earth, not of a mere man, but of very God;" and in a gloss on the pkmtyolpage it is explained that this is because he is the vicegerent of Christ, Who is "very God and very man." See Decretales Domini Gregorli PapaeIX (Decretals of the Lord Pope Gregory IX), liberi, de translatione Episcoporum, (on the transference of Bishops),title 7, chapter 3; Corpus Juris Canonice (2nd Leipzig ed., 1881), col. 99; (Paris, 1612), tom. 2, Decretales, col. 205. 1123. Papacy----claims made for the pope----power to modify divine laws source: Lucius Ferraris, "papa", art. 2, in his Prompta Bibliothecia ("handy library") vol. 6 (venetiis [venice] Gaspar Storti,1772) p.29. Latin.
The pope is of so great authorityand power that he can modify, explain,or interpret even divine laws.......Petrus de Ancharano [1416] very clearly asserts this in Consil.373, no.3 verso: The pope can modify (change) divine law, since his power is not of man, but of God, and he acts in the place of God on Earth, with the fullest power of binding and loosing his sheep.
Tell me you don't recognize some of the names above.
[/color] [/quote] gene, How many times do you suppose that we have completed this full circle, as I know that this has been addressed before? As I have posted before, viceregent is a deputy, not the regent. Does the RC say that Peter became God when Jesus ascended to His Father? No! The Apostles were told that what they loose on earth will be loosed in heaven........ The pope is the successor to Peter, thus what he looses on earth...... In your post where they say that He is very God and very man, they are talking about Jesus, not the pope. You are reading into it and changing the meaning. Actually, no I do not recognize any of the names since I have not read these documents. Blessings, Ann
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Post by genesda on Apr 29, 2004 11:01:57 GMT -5
gene, How many times do you suppose that we have completed this full circle, as I know that this has been addressed before? As I have posted before, viceregent is a deputy, not the regent. Does the RC say that Peter became God when Jesus ascended to His Father? No! The Apostles were told that what they loose on earth will be loosed in heaven........ The pope is the successor to Peter, thus what he looses on earth...... In your post where they say that He is very God and very man, they are talking about Jesus, not the pope. You are reading into it and changing the meaning. Actually, no I do not recognize any of the names since I have not read these documents. Blessings, Ann We're in full circle because you keep denying the truth. [/color]
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Post by marysia on Apr 29, 2004 11:43:20 GMT -5
gene, How many times do you suppose that we have completed this full circle, as I know that this has been addressed before? Blessings, Ann We're in full circle because you keep denying the truth. [/color][/quote] actually gene, it's your truth. not the Truth that we deny. only your version of it.
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Post by genesda on Apr 30, 2004 4:13:30 GMT -5
actually gene, it's your truth. not the Truth that we deny. only your version of it. Since what I posted comes from the Rc archives, then you are denying what your church claims. Your popes have said that you must accept what they say as if God Himself is speaking and it doesn't matter if they are speaking ex-cathedra or not. It seems that you want to accept some of what the Rc leadership says(catechisim) and reject most of the rest of the claims of the Rc leadership and dismiss them as noty being true. The problem is, how do you know the catechisim is correct? Isn't it just a matter of your accepting what sounds good to you? Therefore, it's yuour senses that are guiding you rather than God's word. [/color]
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Post by HomeAtLast on Apr 30, 2004 10:18:04 GMT -5
actually gene, it's your truth. not the Truth that we deny. only your version of it. Since what I posted comes from the Rc archives, then you are denying what your church claims. Your popes have said that you must accept what they say as if God Himself is speaking and it doesn't matter if they are speaking ex-cathedra or not. It seems that you want to accept some of what the Rc leadership says(catechisim) and reject most of the rest of the claims of the Rc leadership and dismiss them as noty being true. The problem is, how do you know the catechisim is correct? Isn't it just a matter of your accepting what sounds good to you? Therefore, it's yuour senses that are guiding you rather than God's word. [/color][/quote] LOL gene, You refuse to read the catechism, so how do you know if it is wrong or right? The Bible and writings of the early church fathers are quoted throughout it. Blessings, Ann
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Post by marysia on Apr 30, 2004 10:24:05 GMT -5
actually gene, it's your truth. not the Truth that we deny. only your version of it. Since what I posted comes from the Rc archives, then you are denying what your church claims. Your popes have said that you must accept what they say as if God Himself is speaking and it doesn't matter if they are speaking ex-cathedra or not. It seems that you want to accept some of what the Rc leadership says(catechisim) and reject most of the rest of the claims of the Rc leadership and dismiss them as noty being true. The problem is, how do you know the catechisim is correct? Isn't it just a matter of your accepting what sounds good to you? Therefore, it's yuour senses that are guiding you rather than God's word. [/color][/quote] gene, just as your claims of the knowledge of Daniel and REvelations are something established by the organization of the SDA. i'm assuming here, you choose to go their route because it fit with what you read and gathered for yourself. for anyone IMO, that chooses a denomination, it's the same thing.
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Post by HomeAtLast on Apr 30, 2004 10:39:24 GMT -5
gene, just as your claims of the knowledge of Daniel and REvelations are something established by the organization of the SDA. i'm assuming here, you choose to go their route because it fit with what you read and gathered for yourself. for anyone IMO, that chooses a denomination, it's the same thing. Marysia, You hit the nail on the head! Blessings for a great day and weekend, Ann
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Post by genesda on May 3, 2004 4:28:13 GMT -5
LOL gene, You refuse to read the catechism, so how do you know if it is wrong or right? The Bible and writings of the early church fathers are quoted throughout it. Blessings, Ann The difference is that mush of what was quoted in the past as absolute truth conflicts with what is now professed. In fact, there isn't a whole lot of difference between what was said in the past and what is now professed. A few different words here or there doesn't mean a change in attitude or belief. [/color]
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