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Post by AJoyfulHeart on Jul 23, 2003 18:28:18 GMT -5
This is my brother's response to me on this subject. He is a Bible translator and he believes in a mid-tribulation rapture.
"I am very inclined to agree with you on the whole earth issue. It is true that the word could be used for specific countries but only with a modifier. In this context there is no modifier to indicate a more specific area. By virtue of not limiting the area, it applies to the whole earth. I could not justify calling it Iraq. If we were to try to make it a specific region (which I do NOT think we should), it would have to be Israel or the entire Middle East. I agree with the E-mail that 2nd rider don't do all of the killing. When it says that he "caused" men to kill each other, that means it is not one nation trying to take over the world. It would either mean world war with many nations fighting many other nations or it means a big increase in terrorism and violent crime. I have heard people say that the second seal is in progress because of terrorism and astronomical increase in violent crimes. This makes sense to me, but I am a little hesitant to say that it is already in progress though the stage is certainly set. Also according to HCJB news, famine is at an unprecidented level. It is much more wide spread so that even though there are many aid organizations now, they are not able to keep up with the needs that have mushroomed in the last couple of years. Also with the Aids and malaria epidemics in Africa, and the TB and Dangue epidemics in many other parts of the world and SARS in Asia- disease is at an unpresidented level. With environmental protection and gun control we see a big increase in death by wild animals, but not really sufficient yet to say it fulfills prophecy. We still have not seen sever economic colapse on a world wide scale either. Anyway things seem to be winding up but we are not quite there yet."
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Post by KatyB98 on Jul 24, 2003 13:25:59 GMT -5
Hi I am super-new, but I was wondering, although the books are fictional, if anyone has read the "Left Behind" series. The topic of the rapture is fresh in my mind. I am still struggling through the Bible (am currently on Numbers) so I won't even attempt to teach anyone anything... I am here as a student in Christ! I just like how this series has helped me understand the order of events. Although I don't believe that President Bush (Jr.) is the anti-christ, I have a very uneasy feeling about him, like he might be one to believe that a new world "Savior" is a good thing. Like Nicolae is to the president of the U.S. in "Tribulation Force." Although the president suspects something fishy when the anti-christ humbly rises to great power, he was not a Christian (you can tell because the rapture had already happened) and was susceptible to the anti-christs poisonous lies. I am afraid that our president just may be weak enough in his faith (although Bush claims to be Christian) that he might let something like an anti-christ fly under his radar. [glow=red,2,300]Sometimes the innocents are more dangerous than the wise![/glow] Thanks for hearing me. Katy
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Post by AJoyfulHeart on Jul 24, 2003 15:18:17 GMT -5
This is my brother's response to me on this subject. He is a Bible translator and he believes in a mid-tribulation rapture. "I am very inclined to agree with you on the whole earth issue. It is true that the word could be used for specific countries but only with a modifier. In this context there is no modifier to indicate a more specific area. By virtue of not limiting the area, it applies to the whole earth. I could not justify calling it Iraq. If we were to try to make it a specific region (which I do NOT think we should), it would have to be Israel or the entire Middle East. I agree with the E-mail that 2nd rider don't do all of the killing. When it says that he "caused" men to kill each other, that means it is not one nation trying to take over the world. It would either mean world war with many nations fighting many other nations or it means a big increase in terrorism and violent crime. I have heard people say that the second seal is in progress because of terrorism and astronomical increase in violent crimes. This makes sense to me, but I am a little hesitant to say that it is already in progress though the stage is certainly set. Also according to HCJB news, famine is at an unprecidented level. It is much more wide spread so that even though there are many aid organizations now, they are not able to keep up with the needs that have mushroomed in the last couple of years. Also with the Aids and malaria epidemics in Africa, and the TB and Dangue epidemics in many other parts of the world and SARS in Asia- disease is at an unpresidented level. With environmental protection and gun control we see a big increase in death by wild animals, but not really sufficient yet to say it fulfills prophecy. We still have not seen sever economic colapse on a world wide scale either. Anyway things seem to be winding up but we are not quite there yet." By the way I asked my husband about what my brother said about the word "earth" needing a modifier to mean country and he did further research and said that my brother is right and that the word literally means "land" as opposed to "sea". and that it would need a modifier in order to mean a country.
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Post by AJoyfulHeart on Jul 24, 2003 15:43:34 GMT -5
Hi I am super-new, but I was wondering, although the books are fictional, if anyone has read the "Left Behind" series. The topic of the rapture is fresh in my mind. I am still struggling through the Bible (am currently on Numbers) so I won't even attempt to teach anyone anything... I am here as a student in Christ! I just like how this series has helped me understand the order of events. Although I don't believe that President Bush (Jr.) is the anti-christ, I have a very uneasy feeling about him, like he might be one to believe that a new world "Savior" is a good thing. Like Nicolae is to the president of the U.S. in "Tribulation Force." Although the president suspects something fishy when the anti-christ humbly rises to great power, he was not a Christian (you can tell because the rapture had already happened) and was susceptible to the anti-christs poisonous lies. I am afraid that our president just may be weak enough in his faith (although Bush claims to be Christian) that he might let something like an anti-christ fly under his radar. [glow=red,2,300]Sometimes the innocents are more dangerous than the wise![/glow] Thanks for hearing me. Katy I couldn't agree more on your opinion of Bush. If he is a believer he is very uneducated in scripture and may have already had a meating with the anti-christ and made agreements with him without knowing what he was doing. follow this link: www.fulfilledprophecy.com I do not agree with the author of the above site on everything but he certainly has some interesting things to say.
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Post by pkmtyolcie98 on Jul 27, 2003 22:00:55 GMT -5
I couldn't agree more on your opinion of Bush. If he is a believer he is very uneducated in scripture and may have already had a meating with the anti-christ and made agreements with him without knowing what he was doing. In my opinion, none of us know the president well enough to draw conclusions about his knowledge of scripture. As for the Anitchrist, we do not even have proof that he is here yet. It could be thousands of years away, for all we know.
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Post by AJoyfulHeart on Jul 27, 2003 22:11:12 GMT -5
In my opinion, none of us know the president well enough to draw conclusions about his knowledge of scripture. As for the Anitchrist, we do not even have proof that he is here yet. It could be thousands of years away, for all we know. yes you could be rigth. I apologise
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Post by pkmtyolcie98 on Jul 27, 2003 22:16:28 GMT -5
yes you could be rigth. I apologise No big deal. It's just my two cents.
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Post by AJoyfulHeart on Jul 28, 2003 7:20:05 GMT -5
another interesting quote from my brother although not my view I thought I would share it. this was in response to my telling him what someone here reminded me of that the white horse is what Romans rode on when they returned from battle a conquering hero.
"O.K. you are right, a white horse does not necessarily have to mean pure. However I still think the common Biblical picture of white=pure is the intended image here. Note that a white horse was used as he "went out" not when he "returned." I admit, my "going out" verses "returning" destinction is a weak one, but worth consideration anyway. If the image only means a conquerer, then the prophecy would be quite general and could easily apply to Hitler (WW1) and/or Japan(WW2). With this interpretation we could be on seal number 5 (assuming that one seal does not have to be complete for another seal to start and so several seals are running simultaneously). I do not personally beleive that we are this far in the seals, but I would admit the possibility. I do not think the first seals are necessarily part of the trib, though the 6th seal seems to be. It is possible in my mind for the first 5 seals to be what Jesus refered to as "the beginning of sorrows" (Matt. 24:8). I personally would only fit seals 1-3 into "the beginning of sorrows." In other words, events that lead up to and cause the tribulation to come, but not necessarily part of the actual tribulation."
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Post by AJoyfulHeart on Jul 29, 2003 17:27:17 GMT -5
By the way I asked my husband about what my brother said about the word "earth" needing a modifier to mean country and he did further research and said that my brother is right and that the word literally means "land" as opposed to "sea". and that it would need a modifier in order to mean a country. hey vin you never responded to this.
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Post by larrygn on Aug 7, 2003 10:40:35 GMT -5
I think that all the seals have pkmtyolped, and that we are now in the middle of the New Jersulsem period of Revelations. I believe God has been going through with his plan for the future and the Christian church as it now stands is obvivious to it. The rapture took place, the 1000 years of everyting in the name of Christ, and the 2 saviors of the faith, who restored many to the Christ, all come and gone, and historically documentable. It jsut takes some research, and the church wanted the Christ to come in a mannor the Jews wanted the Messiah to come. Both made fatal mistakes, but the church can redeem itself,and had best get busy. Larry
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Post by semperfidelis on Aug 13, 2003 15:46:24 GMT -5
I just talked to my brother and he just made a pretty good argument that we might (and he stressed "might") be in the first seal. He sees the first seal as President Bush going out and for reasons of justice (the white horse) conquering and to conquer. He thinks the second seal will be world war. maybe neuclear weapons will be the great sword? What do you all think? Ajoyfulheart, I believe that the seals will not be broken until after the rapture happens. I think it will go something like this. Matthew 24 - the gospel will be preached to the ends of the earth to everyone - then the end will come. Jesus will come back and gather his believers 1 Thessalonians - 2 Thessalonians 2. The Antichrist will confirm a peace covenant with many Daniel 9:27 This will start the seal judgments and the four horsemen of Revelation. The first rider will be the Antichrist and his riding out timeline can be connected to Daniel 9:27. Revelation 6. When the crown is given to the Antichrist is when he will confirm the covenant with many. and then on it goes. I believe we will see the rapture then a successful 7 year peace accord between Israel and some of her enemies. Of course there is a good argument for a mid trib rapture. In that case you would see the 7 year peace covenant and then the rapture around the time of the desecration of the temple halfway through the tribulation week.
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Post by I2AM4GOD on Aug 14, 2003 5:16:39 GMT -5
A Christian friend of mine told me that the 7-year Peace Agreement that the Anti-Christ will sign with Israel already exists on paper, and that it is only a matter of timing.......
Your Brother in Christ, Andy.
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Post by semperfidelis on Aug 14, 2003 9:07:56 GMT -5
A Christian friend of mine told me that the 7-year Peace Agreement that the Anti-Christ will sign with Israel already exists on paper, and that it is only a matter of timing....... Your Brother in Christ, Andy. I have never heard that before. I guess it is possible.
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Post by larrygn on Aug 15, 2003 10:14:01 GMT -5
We fall into the same trap as the Jewish leaders, wanting things to be the way they dreamed, not what God had planned. Even Clement does this, but interpreting everything for his day and time, and we do also. Just what do all of us think the last 2000 years were for, just time biding for the great 21st century people to understand the truth, and the the glory of God to shine out the the heavens, and save us all. Well, I believe that God is far more demanding than that. He requires us to show and prove a 100% commitment to him, and to do that, we must first understand what we are, and where we are, and what the objectives are that he has given us. Revelations is the history of the future, use it wisely, not for some pie in the sky thinking. Yours in the Ever Living Christ, Larry
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Post by col311 on Aug 25, 2003 21:26:57 GMT -5
This would make Bush the anti christ and he's not.
So My answer is no
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