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Post by HomeAtLast on Apr 30, 2004 10:03:57 GMT -5
Suddam Hussein was NEVER the Al-queda! You think we are over their fighting some big war with Al-queda in Iraq and those behind it all and responsible for flying planes into the world trade center are not even there really. Hello, hello..... Earth to Houston -- they may use what we are doing to further their cause and gain bigger support with the Iraqi people. However, ultimately their operation is not in Iraq. Never was. The ONLY ones convinced of this whole propganda bit that we are doing something to hamper the Al-queda in Iraq is the AMERICANS. And BTW, the other countries involment has been perfunctionary -- out of obligation to the United States, etc. But, you'll notice they are now pulling out.
And the U.N. disputes these claims, disputes that he had weapons of pkmtyolm distruction through those very inspections. Look the United States armed most every single dictator, freedom fighters, etc., they have later had a problem with. Nearly every one. Do you understand? We go in and arm and train who we think will fight for who we want in power in these situations, and then later when it turns out differently than what we planned we try to barge in again and act like the victim while we flatten them. The record of the human atrocities done by the very countries we ARE NOW stroking is atrocious, SO this is bogus. We don't give a crap about what they do to their people if what they are doing for US gives us what we want!!!! THAT is OUR record Ann.
Study our history. Study our NEWEST relationships in the countries that border Afghanistan, and study the newest bases we've built (and where those are) since Bush took office. Study the human rights records for the goverments of those countries and you'll find they are every bit as bad as Suddam Hussein in many many respects. You'll find Al-queda in them as well.
You believe the lies your goverment has told you, and what's more -- you believe it because George Bush is a Christian. Kee, He supported terrorism and funded it. Why is that so hard for you to believe? I do not believe that because George Bush said it. I believe it because of Saddam Hussain's actions, when he ran Iraq and after. He was a very evil man in charge of a country that in the past has asked for our help. People who have escaped from Iraq for years have been asking us for help to get rid of him. They include scientists that saw and were made to work with the weapons. He would not let inspectors in for so long and when he finally did restricted where they could look. You do not find that at all suspicious? The fact that Bush is a Christian has nothing to do with it. Heck Kerry is a supposedly a Christian, too. Which is how this thread started, btw. Yet, I do not believe Kerry because he changes his stance on issues and facts on a daily basis. Blessings, Ann |
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Post by marysia on Apr 30, 2004 10:19:55 GMT -5
Kee, He supported terrorism and funded it. Why is that so hard for you to believe? I do not believe that because George Bush said it. I believe it because of Saddam Hussain's actions, when he ran Iraq and after. He was a very evil man in charge of a country that in the past has asked for our help. People who have escaped from Iraq for years have been asking us for help to get rid of him. They include scientists that saw and were made to work with the weapons. He would not let inspectors in for so long and when he finally did restricted where they could look. You do not find that at all suspicious? Ann and to back that up you can go to the Detroit Free Press -- www.freep.com. you will find throughout their archives a number of locals who HAVE excaped and HAVE worked with his chemical warfare "specialists". i have lived, worked and played among them -- they feared this man. these people who have run from their homes, thier countries, their educations, gave up everything, everything, to come to the US to have a safer life. not many of them came here for money or any other reason but simply to get away. many will take jobs that are beneath their educations just to live in a semblence of peace! |
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Post by MorningStar on Apr 30, 2004 10:22:09 GMT -5
actually many have been closed that are inoperable or unnecessary. just closed on in puerto rico i think it was and it brought a large number of new military and civilian jobs here to florida. Yeah, and we're gonig through another BRAC (Base Relocation and Closing) right now, to be decided upon unoffically by May 2005, officially by December 2005 (president at the time signs off). |
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Post by marysia on Apr 30, 2004 12:37:44 GMT -5
Yeah, and we're gonig through another BRAC (Base Relocation and Closing) right now, to be decided upon unoffically by May 2005, officially by December 2005 (president at the time signs off). you gonna get hit?? i know our town would fold up shop without our bases. we're good at least until 2012 so... with the PR closing it actually helpd us and another in south florida. hey when a base closed in michigan - it actually fared VERY well as a private/public type club... it's brought in tourist revenues! Good luck! |
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Post by MorningStar on Apr 30, 2004 13:04:04 GMT -5
you gonna get hit?? i know our town would fold up shop without our bases. we're good at least until 2012 so... with the PR closing it actually helpd us and another in south florida. hey when a base closed in michigan - it actually fared VERY well as a private/public type club... it's brought in tourist revenues! Good luck! We're on the list, rumors are about a 50/50 chance of getting hit for closure of this base and relocation to Virginia (most likely). Us closing would probably be really good for the economy here, given the base occupies a huge area and has office buildings built within the past 8 years. |
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Post by marysia on Apr 30, 2004 15:23:22 GMT -5
We're on the list, rumors are about a 50/50 chance of getting hit for closure of this base and relocation to Virginia (most likely). Us closing would probably be really good for the economy here, given the base occupies a huge area and has office buildings built within the past 8 years. now i'm curious -- what type of base do you have? i've got an air, fleet and boomer base... hey do they have a conference area - one of ours does and when there was talk about it closing we were stoked about creating an area for large conferences and stuff. just a thought. thank goodness JKF is coming back for more work and then holding ground here for a little while. Good luck! |
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Post by Kee on Apr 30, 2004 16:36:15 GMT -5
Yet, I do not believe Kerry because he changes his stance on issues and facts on a daily basis. Oh but you believe Bush when he changes his even more frequently, eh? I posted this article elsewhere when it came out and think of it every time you or someone else brings up this most amuzing double standard. It's up to you, but personally I'd move on to some better argument than one your own candidate is quite quilty off. snottitude.proboards20.com/index.cgi?board=currentevents&action=display&thread=1083360536 |
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Post by marysia on Apr 30, 2004 17:28:19 GMT -5
molly ivins - never heard of her so... here's her background... just in case others didn't know who was writing the aritcle either.
Molly Ivins's two greatest honors, so she says, are that the Minneapolis police force named its mascot pig after her and that she was once banned from Texas A&M's college campus. Most folks know her, however, as the nationally syndicated editorial columnist for the Fort Worth Star-Telegram.
Ivins is from Houston and now lives in Austin. She has degrees from Smith College and Columbia University, and studied at the Institute of Political Science in Paris. Her journalism career began in the Complaint Department of the Houston Chronicle. Next she worked for the Minneapolis Tribune as a police reporter. She later covered social changes among minorities, feminists and student protesters.
In 1970, Ronnie Dugger, publisher of The Texas Observer, hired Ivins as co-editor of his small but influential magazine about Texas politics. She covered the Texas Legislature when it was in session. In 1976 she became a political reporter for the New York Times. There she covered City Hall and the New York Legislature. A year later, the skill Ivins displayed in handling those assignments led to three years of reporting on nine mountain states as chief, and sole member, of the New York Times Rocky Mountain Bureau. She returned to Texas in February 1982.
Ivins' freelance work has appeared in Esquire, Atlantic, The Nation, Harper's, the Progressive, Mother Jones, TV Guide and numerous other publications. She is a frequent guest on network radio and television shows.
Ivins has a B.A. from Smith College, a master's in journalism from Columbia University and studied for a year at the Institute of Political Science in Paris.
She served for three years on the board of the National News Council, is active in the Amnesty International's Journalism Network and the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press. She writes about press issues for the American Civil Liberties Union and several journalism reviews.
She has been a Pulitzer Prize finalist three times, and has won numerous journalism awards, including a 1991 Headliner's Award for best Texas column. She was named Outstanding Alumna by Columbia University's School of Journalism in 1976, and was a member of the 1992 Pulitzer Prize jury.
She speaks both French and Spanish and has a love of the outdoor
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Post by HomeAtLast on Apr 30, 2004 23:35:39 GMT -5
Actually Kee, I look more at the job performance than at words. George Bush has shown that terrorists will not dictate the United States. John Kerry's job performance is quite wishy washy. He voted to go in to Iraq but did not want to equip the soldiers. Guess they were supposed to shake their fingers at the enemy and say "now STOP!" He states that he is a good Catholic yet votes to kill innocent babies. If you can not trust him with a baby, what can you trust him with? Says he threw away his medals in protest, but then said he did not. Said he is a great war hero but denounces other soldiers when he returns from war. It is the inconsistencies of his words and actions, as far as I can see and hear. George Bush has a much better record of job performance than Kerry. That is why. Blessings, Ann |
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Post by MorningStar on May 1, 2004 0:05:15 GMT -5
now i'm curious -- what type of base do you have? i've got an air, fleet and boomer base... hey do they have a conference area - one of ours does and when there was talk about it closing we were stoked about creating an area for large conferences and stuff. just a thought. thank goodness JKF is coming back for more work and then holding ground here for a little while. Good luck! Its mostly civilian, not much military there - we handle procurement of equipment for the military - and yeah, we have a couple conference areas  |
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Post by marysia on May 1, 2004 9:47:53 GMT -5
Its mostly civilian, not much military there - we handle procurement of equipment for the military - and yeah, we have a couple conference areas we have one of those too -- blount island! sounds like if they do pull out a smart business person will make good use of it then! let's hope and pray for the best! |
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Post by Onion on May 1, 2004 13:37:13 GMT -5
Actually Kee, I look more at the job performance than at words. George Bush has shown that terrorists will not dictate the United States. WOW!!! How old are you ann? YOU SOUND VERY IMMATURE! GW BUSH DID NOTHING to stop terror!!! He was the Man on Duty when we were attacked. Remeber 9/11??? And what did the FOOL do about it? Invade, Occupy and TORTURE Iraqis!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Post by Kee on May 1, 2004 17:01:43 GMT -5
Actually Kee, I look more at the job performance than at words. George Bush has shown that terrorists will not dictate the United States. John Kerry's job performance is quite wishy washy. He voted to go in to Iraq but did not want to equip the soldiers. Guess they were supposed to shake their fingers at the enemy and say "now STOP!" He states that he is a good Catholic yet votes to kill innocent babies. If you can not trust him with a baby, what can you trust him with? Says he threw away his medals in protest, but then said he did not. Said he is a great war hero but denounces other soldiers when he returns from war. It is the inconsistencies of his words and actions, as far as I can see and hear. George Bush has a much better record of job performance than Kerry. That is why.
Paradoxically, this grand strategy may prove more radically disruptive of world order than anything the terrorist of September 11, 2001, could have ever hoped to achieve on their own. Through its actions, the United States seems determined to bring about precisely the threats that it says it is trying to prevent. Its apparent acceptance of a "clash of civilizations" and of wars to establish a moral truth that is the same in every culture sounds remarkably like a jihad, especially given the Bush administration's ties to Christian fundamentalism. The president even implicitly equated himself to Jesus Christ in repeated statements (notably on September 20, 2001) that those who are not with us are against us, a line clearly meant to echo Matthew 12:30, "He that is not with me is against me."
Analyst familiar with the history of international relations reacted to the Bush administration's strategy report with a chorus of skepticism. International relations theorist Stanley Hoffman declared it "breathtakingly unrealistic" "morally reckless," and "eerily reminiscent of the disastrously wishful thinking of the Vietnam War." The inventor of "world systems theory," Immanuel Wallerstein noted that the new strategy has brought into being something American foreign policy historically sought to avoid--namely, the possibility of a coalition involving France, Germany, and Russia. It also stands to alienate the only country in the world, Saudi Arabia, that by turning off its oil supply could transform the United States into a huge junkyard. "When George Bush leaves office." Wallerstein predicted, "he will leave the United States significantly weaker."
In late February 2003, John Kiesling, a senior diplomat then serving at the American Empkmtyolby in Greece, resigned and wrote to the secretary of state, "The policies we are now asked to advance are incompatible not only with American values but also with American interest...We have begun to dismantle the largest and most effective web of international relationships the world has ever known. Our current course will bring instability and danger, not security.You say you go by job performance, yet I've not seen that you have any grasp of the most serious of issues beyond the republican propoganda being fed to the public through the media and their speeches. This nonsense over ribbons verses the medals being thrown - it's just so petty, so dang juvenille, inconsequential, not to mention that it happened over 20 years ago. This is the best they've got for their smear campaign? Quite pathetic I'll tell you that this president and his campaign pulls this propoganda to avoid HIS OWN RECORD in the military, on the failures of this war, on the mounting number of dead soldiers coming home, on the environment, on jobs, on driving our country toward bankruptcy with his military conquest. Not to mention he has systematically weakened our military strength and national security by invading Iraq. What difference will it make Bush is percieved by SOME as a good little Christian because he is pro-Life WHEN his policies, his job permformance, and HIS decisions ARE running this country into the ground?!Although tyranny, because it needs no consent, may successfully rule over foreign peoples, it can stay in power only if it destroys first of all the national institutions of its own people.
Hannah Arendt,
The Origins of Totalitarianianism (1951) |
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Post by Kee on May 2, 2004 1:17:39 GMT -5
molly ivins - never heard of her so... here's her background... just in case others didn't know who was writing the aritcle either. Thanks Marysia...very interesting. I got turned on to Molly by my company's accountant. She showed me a column of Molly's in my city's major newspaper that exposed the scam of the Medicare bill, how it would make millions (perhaps billions, can't recall) for the drug companies over the next eight years I believe. It also discussed the profitable relationship for the Energy elite with president Bush, and then further, a real startle in that article was the mention of the Synfuel industry tax breaks and how the readers should check that out. Boy I did, and oh my gosh, that's enough to make you furious. This bill, as Molly stated was well intended, but went sour through the raping of the legislation (as so often happens) by corruption in the industry. It was designed to promote research in developing alternative fuels and hopefully reduce our dependency on oil in the future. Unfortunately, what happened instead is that the big guns in fuels formed new companies, corporations that sent coal down a conveyer belt, sprayed it with diesel fuel, and then wala labeled it "Synfuel." Then they sell it and receive incredible amounts of money in tax breaks. Time magazine covered a great article on this pilage. Pretty slick eh? That's but one thing going on in your government. Molly has been an awesome source in researching the many sources to report on these types of corruption. I love her candid and no bones about it style in doing so. |
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Post by genesda on May 7, 2004 7:48:21 GMT -5
WOW!!! How old are you ann? YOU SOUND VERY IMMATURE! GW BUSH DID NOTHING to stop terror!!! He was the Man on Duty when we were attacked. Remeber 9/11??? And what did the FOOL do about it? Invade, Occupy and TORTURE Iraqis!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! many people here can be wrong about their positions, but there is only one fool here. That's you, and I don't know how you got off of ignore, but I'll do it again. [/color] |
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