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Post by Shirley on Jan 8, 2005 8:23:08 GMT -5
Keikikoka, What makes you assume that people aren't already voluntarily receiving the "Mark of the Beast" ? The technology already exists. Happy New Year, Christian. I'm going to assume that you don't believe in the rapture and christians will be here for the tribulation? If people are already voluntarily taking the mark of the beast, does that mean the trib has already started? Not saying I believe in the whole "Left Behind" mentality, just trying to get some info..
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Post by Shirley on Jan 8, 2005 8:35:46 GMT -5
Pietro, I chose "Don't be crazy!" just because..I like the way it sounds ;D Yes, these occurances have been happening for aeons..there are more people in the world now than in times pkmtyolped, we have more "witnesses" of these events. The earth has wobbled in the pkmtyolped also. I'm not sure of this, seems I heard it somewhere...but didn't it totally rotate on its axis also? Boy..wouldn't that be fun? I was watching a program on the Science channel this morning..it was very early and I didn't take notes, but it was speaking of the tsunami and what causes them, etc..it spoke of one that could be headed for us, here in America. The tectonic plates (arrgghh...wish I had been more awake!) that are between hmm..Canada and America? are locked against each other and are not moving but the pressure is building. They are observing an island (again, I don't remember which or where) that is being pushed out or away..but every so often it "pushes" back..causing further pressure on the locked plates. The point of the above being..when they finally do move..boy are they gonna move! But..we have the ability to see it coming. You know, I've heard all kinds of theories on the why's of the tsunami..from scientific to spiritual. Some make alot of sense..and some are just downright mean and nasty. It was a geological occurance..the earth releasing pressure that had been building for some time. It was not God's judgment on a group of people for "persecuting Christians" or worshipping another God ..
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Post by keikikoka on Jan 8, 2005 11:33:06 GMT -5
Because it is implemented by the beast of the earth, on behalf of the beast of the sea. Would you mind telling me who they are, if they have already started this program?
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Post by Shirley on Jan 8, 2005 11:51:34 GMT -5
Because it is implemented by the beast of the earth, on behalf of the beast of the sea. Would you mind telling me who they are, if they have already started this program? The liberal left implemented it last year..didn't you get the memo?
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Post by Traffic Demon on Jan 8, 2005 13:14:15 GMT -5
I2AM4AndyChristianOmega7-11 - "We can see on television the armed conflict that is going on in the world, the natural disasters that are happening now, the decline of moral values in advanced societies, and the spiralling increases in crime that are going on in the world."
And we know that the problems of our time are no different than the problems that people have experienced throughout history. Sky - still not falling.
--Big Daddy Traf Some will die in hot pursuit in fiery auto crashes Some will die in hot pursuit while sifting through my ashes Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain that is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain
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Post by Pietro on Jan 8, 2005 14:17:20 GMT -5
It was a geological occurance..the earth releasing pressure that had been building for some time. It was not God's judgment on a group of people for "persecuting Christians" or worshipping another God .. A geological occurance and many can't seem to help giving it a theological meaning. And yet sisn't it an aspect of faith to give theological meaning to all events in our lives? But it doesn't make sense to me. Those people affected were not any more evil or deserving of it than others. If it would have happened in the mountains where Bin Laden is hiding, or even L.A. I might be more tempted to see it as divine action. Often when we survive a crisis with think if it as God being with us, protecting us. Did God abandon those 150,000? It seems to me to be an unfortunate yet periodic geological occurance. But is it without any theological significance?
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Post by Shirley on Jan 8, 2005 16:03:06 GMT -5
I suppose if there must be theological significance..hmm..sorry, I just can't think of any. Perhaps, on a personal level there is. For those who died, for those left behind. I'm sure for them, it has GREAT significance.
I find it hard to believe that God would simply decide that those 150,000 should die. However..perhaps He just allowed it to happen?
I was reading a story about a boy almost buried alive in a pkmtyolm grave. He woke up just before they were going to toss him in..amidst a pile of corpses. I'm sure he is thanking his gods for keeping him from that fate. But, what of others who did not wake up in time? Did God decide they should suffer that horrible fate? What if they woke up after being buried..I think that would about do it for me that either there was no God..or he really hated me..
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Post by AlphaOmega on Jan 10, 2005 10:49:33 GMT -5
I'm going to assume that you don't believe in the rapture and christians will be here for the tribulation? If people are already voluntarily taking the mark of the beast, does that mean the trib has already started? Not saying I believe in the whole "Left Behind" mentality, just trying to get some info.. Judy, I believe in the rapture. The majority of we Christians are going to escape the Great Tribulation when we are "beamed up" to be with the Lord. Expect a bumpy ride leading up to that time. The persecution of God's people will increase, and that includes the Western Church. It's going to take an awful long time to manufacture all those biochips for the ***ed when you consider the billions of human beings who inhabit this World. And people must be encouraged to get used to the idea of biochip implants. Expect a pkmtyolmive promotional drive for these things. Heard through the grapevine the other day that Prince William of the British royal family has already received his "Mark of the Beast" implant. He was persuaded to accept it because of fears for his personal safety - you know, kidnappings of the rich and famous. Get them chipped first, and then it's onto us lesser mortals. Happy New Year, Christian.
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Post by LauraJean on Jan 10, 2005 11:23:22 GMT -5
First, my disclaimer: I totally eschew the whole "left behind" / rapture/ tribulation /millennialism/ dispensationalism thing as a bunch of theological hooey. Having said that, this comment confused me: I believe in the rapture. The majority of we Christians are going to escape the Great Tribulation when we are "beamed up" to be with the Lord. Why (in this theological scenario) are only a "majority" of Christians going to be beamed up? Why aren't ALL Christians going to escape the Great Tribulation? Is there some notion that, while a person is Christian, he may still in some way be unworthy of escaping the Trib? Is it the contention of Trib/Rapture/Millenialist adherents that our place during the End Times is somehow contingent on our actions? Curious... LJ
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Post by LauraJean on Jan 10, 2005 11:32:23 GMT -5
Basically, he's saying that most of the movement was one tectonic plate sliding over another plate, instead of the movement being side to side. One plate gets pushed up, the other gets pushed down, kind of what is happening along the border between Asia and the Indian subcontinent. As India pushes its way north into Asia, the plate is forced downward, but the collision also causes some of the land to be uplifted, in this case forming the Himalays, which are actually still growing. Hi, Traf. I understood the explanation as laid out in the article. (It certainly made more sense to me!) My question, however, was this: What evidence do those who say Sri Lanka moved 100 meters have for their claim? Did someone with a GPS or other similar technology verify the claim? I have the same question about the Earth's rotation. The "may have's" and "could be's" in the scientists' quotes, as far as I'm concerned, don't constitute verifiable evidence, or evidence at all for that matter. Opinions and speculation aren't evidence. So while everyone's hands are up in the air decrying the movement of islands and the Earth's rotation, I have'nt seen any proof that either of these things actually occurred. The article cited doesn't answer my questions either so I'm hoping there's more (there's that word again) evidence behind the claims. Maybe if someone could explain to me exactly what governs the Earth's rotation, (Could be my understanding is in error!) the claim would make more sense than it does at the moment. Anyone? Thanks! Blessings, LJ
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Post by LauraJean on Jan 10, 2005 11:42:19 GMT -5
My very "tough love" answer to the question, "Why me?" is this.... Why NOT you? Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
I suspect this is what SJudy is referring to with her observation that some responses are downright mean, and on the surface, I'm sure it looks coldhearted.
But looking deeper, I much prefer a God who is in control of EVERYTHING, who doesn't merely fix things after they go wrong but has a plan from the beginning, who has the power to control all, to whom I can go to wrestle with and rail against, who has the power, the "say" in what happens (if you're going to complain, complain to one who can do something about it!), and who is omniscient and knows what's best for ALL the people He loves.
Consider Esther. She could have wailed "why me" from the moment she got plopped in the middle of the beauty contest, but instead she trusted that God had a plan and a purpose for the evil that was befalling her people.
My God is bigger than anything else.
Blessings! LJ
P.S., What I hope is that this tragedy reminds the evangelical-minded of us that life is fragile and uncertain, and that we get a stronger sense of urgency regarding our evangelism to the unsaved.
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Post by AlphaOmega on Jan 10, 2005 11:48:23 GMT -5
First, my disclaimer: I totally eschew the whole "left behind" / rapture/ tribulation /millennialism/ dispensationalism thing as a bunch of theological hooey. Having said that, this comment confused me: Why (in this theological scenario) are only a "majority" of Christians going to be beamed up? Why aren't ALL Christians going to escape the Great Tribulation? Those believers who have prepared themselves will escape the Great Tribulation. Also the 144,000 Jewish believers and the two witnesses will remain on the Earth to preach the Gospel to the unsaved in those final days before the Lord returns.Is there some notion that, while a person is Christian, he may still in some way be unworthy of escaping the Trib? Is it the contention of Trib/Rapture/Millenialist adherents that our place during the End Times is somehow contingent on our actions? None of us are truly worthy because "all have sinned".Curious... LJ Good.
Christian.
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Post by LauraJean on Jan 10, 2005 11:59:38 GMT -5
[quote author=Andy link=board=end&thread=1104349739&start=41#2 date=1105375703][Those believers who have prepared themselves will escape the Great Tribulation. Also the 144,000 Jewish believers and the two witnesses will remain on the Earth to preach the Gospel to the unsaved in those final days before the Lord returns.[/quote]
Taken at its face value, your statement says that whether or not we get to Heaven depends on us, or on good timing. Doesn't that fly in the face of what the Bible tells us about Grace, about Jesus's atoning death and resurrection?
LJ Is there some notion that, while a person is Christian, he may still in some way be unworthy of escaping the Trib?
Andy None of us are truly worthy because "all have sinned".
LJ CONTEXT!! and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.
LJ
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Post by PhilipDC78 on Jan 10, 2005 12:13:46 GMT -5
Those believers who have prepared themselves will escape the Great Tribulation. Also the 144,000 Jewish believers and the two witnesses will remain on the Earth to preach the Gospel to the unsaved in those final days before the Lord returns How does a believer in Christ become "prepared" for the rapture? What makes one believer in Christ more deserving to get "raptured" than another? Where in the Bible do you get this stuff?
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Post by Traffic Demon on Jan 10, 2005 15:48:08 GMT -5
LauraJean - "What evidence do those who say Sri Lanka moved 100 meters have for their claim? Did someone with a GPS or other similar technology verify the claim?"
While I haven't seen it stated how the measurements were obtained, GPS would certainly be an easy way to do it, since such devices can measure positions accurately to centimeters.
"I have the same question about the Earth's rotation. The 'may have's' and 'could be's' in the scientists' quotes, as far as I'm concerned, don't constitute verifiable evidence, or evidence at all for that matter. Opinions and speculation aren't evidence."
I haven't seen any such measurements either, but any changes to the length of our days could be measured pretty easily with an atomic clock, and GPS could have been used to detect any "shudder" in the Earth's orbit.
"So while everyone's hands are up in the air decrying the movement of islands and the Earth's rotation, I have'nt seen any proof that either of these things actually occurred."
I haven't seen any of the evidence either (I'm assuming it's because most of the information is coming from media sources unwilling to delve into the specifics), but just from the movement of the plates, there would necessarily have been some movement of the land. As for any of the claimed changes to the Earth's orbit, I'm inclined to believe the statements, but given the insignificance of the changes, it really doesn't matter either way.
--TDv2.0 1:4:9
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