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Post by Charis on Aug 19, 2003 19:36:42 GMT -5
The 'guilt by association' is that those two associate with Satan via 'spirit masters'. No, it's because anytime you bring Hitler into a conversation, rational discourse is over. |
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Post by Heart4Him on Aug 19, 2003 22:04:16 GMT -5
Because I've been New Age and Wiccan and know what they are TRULY about. So do I have to be a drug addict to know that it is bad and how it destroys people?  I am aware that you were once New Age and Wiccan. Glad you are not now.  Are there not many differences within the New Age authors? I posted quotes by these women. Their words really speak for themselves, and condemn them. Blatavsky knew who she was referring to in this quote: “Satan is that Angel who was proud enough to believe himself God; brave enough to buy his independence at the price of eternal suffering and torture; beautiful enough to have adored himself in full divine light; strong enough to still reign in darkness amidst agony, and to have made himself a throne out of this inextinguishable pyre…” Bailey referred to Jesus Christ as "a sham'. Both women channeled 'spirit masters' - demons. I don't understand why you deny they refer to Satan, aka Lucifier, and why you don't see in not serving Christ, they are serving Satan. And I don't understand why you say that the Lucifer in 'Lucifer Publishing Company' was not a reference to Satan. Sorry, but I find that confusing. I mentioned Hitler, and I believe the reference has value to my points. You asked for proof - I responded. So I take you don't want it now. |
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Post by Charis on Aug 19, 2003 22:21:41 GMT -5
So do I have to be a drug addict to know that it is bad and how it destroys people? They will have a much better idea unless one wants to assert that book learning is of the same value as learning from experience. And some people (like me) have both. (I minored in Religious Studies in college.) That's her, not Bailey. So do many atheists. The difference is INTENT. Was she INTENDING to channel demons? I doubt that highly. She probably believed she was indeed channeling some "spirit master." When I worshipped other gods, did I INTEND to worship demons? No. I honestly thought I was worshipping gods. INTENT is everything if you are going to slam a person. A person who intends evil (like a serial killer) will be punished much more harshly than someone who accidentally kills someone. Follow? Even our U.S. laws recognize intent when deciding guilt. Therefore, we should look at what she intended and judge her on that. However wrong she may be. For example, I worshipped demons, right? Without knowing what they were, right? So will you brand me a satanist or simply deluded? |
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Post by Heart4Him on Aug 19, 2003 22:45:27 GMT -5
They will have a much better idea unless one wants to assert that book learning is of the same value as learning from experience. And some people (like me) have both. (I minored in Religious Studies in college.) Nice that you minored in religious studies. Why do you assume I have no knowledge or education? No 'life experience'? Bailey channeled the 'Tibetan', right? Don't you also believe that 'spirit masters are demons? think about it- where do demons come from and what is their relationship with Satan? And they aren't serving Christ, are they? So who are they serving? Doesn't change the fact that she rejected Christ of Calvary first. Then she channeled the demon. And she continued to reject Christ. She'd been told the truth. How do you believe God will judge her? Glad you aren't now and know a risen Saviour. However, how honestly you believed what you did in the past, what does the Bible say about it? Read Romans 1-2 - there is no excuse. Biblically speaking, I see degrees of rewards given by God. But regarding those who are not in Christ, and have not received forgiveness through Christ, their eternal judgement will not be based on intentions, but whther they are written in the book of life - i.e forgiven. As of now, since you profess Christ, I consider you Christian. But before you received Christ and His forgiveness, and when you worshipped those demons, however unknowingly, you were lost and in sin, and separated from God. And those who are not serving Christ are serving Satan. Whether they know it or not. |
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Post by Charis on Aug 19, 2003 23:49:51 GMT -5
And those who are not serving Christ are serving Satan. Whether they know it or not. Which was my ENTIRE point... Still, is it right to label them satanists, or me a satanist back then? You sidestepped that question. |
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Post by I2AM4GOD on Aug 20, 2003 8:35:26 GMT -5
Why is it that, as a "new ager", I have never heard of this "Lucis Trust" before reading about it here on these boards? Please don't make the mistake of lumping everyone that you consider a "new ager" into the same category. You can't even really do this for all of the people that consider themselves Christian. Seems some people are getting somewhat hyper-sensitive on this message board. You're a 'New Ager'? Welcome. I was just wanting to be helpful by suggesting some literature for those interested in what the 'New Age' movement and 'Lucis Trust' are about. We are by no means experts on this sort of thing, which is why there are books on it. No offence was intended....... Andy. |
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Post by I2AM4GOD on Aug 20, 2003 9:12:07 GMT -5
All, I do hope this discussion doesn't degenerate into petty disagreements....... Andy.  |
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Post by heathen76 on Aug 20, 2003 9:13:11 GMT -5
Seems some people are getting somewhat hyper-sensitive on this message board. You're a 'New Ager'? Welcome. I was just wanting to be helpful by suggesting some literature for those interested in what the 'New Age' movement and 'Lucis Trust' are about. We are by no means experts on this sort of thing, which is why there are books on it. No offence was intended....... Andy. I wasn't offended!  Thank you for the concern and the suggestions. Have a great day! ;D |
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Post by Heart4Him on Aug 21, 2003 0:48:18 GMT -5
Which was my ENTIRE point... Still, is it right to label them satanists, or me a satanist back then? You sidestepped that question. I don't think I sidestepped at all. And if that was your entire point...well, you took a loooong way around the block to get there, as my grandpa would say.  Is it right to label Blavatsky and Bailey satanists? I believe so, going by what they wrote, their own words - or rather the Hindu's and the Tibetin's words as channeled by them. They both heard the truth of Jesus Christ and rejected the Christ of Calvary, choosing their 'spirit masters' to follow. Going back to the reason for the thread, and the initial discussion that I got into, I believe the 'Lucifer' in the Lucifer Publishing company is a reference to Satan, and not just a use of a Latin word. Now do I go up to New Ager's and others and call them Satanists? no. That would be untactful and considered unfriendly, and I would be rebluffed. But I still believe that they are. |
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Post by heathen76 on Aug 21, 2003 8:38:44 GMT -5
Now do I go up to New Ager's and others and call them Satanists? no. That would be untactful and considered unfriendly, and I would be rebluffed. But I still believe that they are. It is your right to be incorrect. |
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Post by ARKCOV on Aug 21, 2003 10:43:48 GMT -5
Heathen76: It is your right to be incorrect.
ARKCOV: Likewise, it is ok for you to remain ignorant. No one will try and stop you.
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Post by Charis on Aug 21, 2003 12:51:02 GMT -5
I don't think I sidestepped at all. And if that was your entire point...well, you took a loooong way around the block to get there, as my grandpa would say. Is it right to label Blavatsky and Bailey satanists? I believe so, going by what they wrote, their own words - or rather the Hindu's and the Tibetin's words as channeled by them. They both heard the truth of Jesus Christ and rejected the Christ of Calvary, choosing their 'spirit masters' to follow. Going back to the reason for the thread, and the initial discussion that I got into, I believe the 'Lucifer' in the Lucifer Publishing company is a reference to Satan, and not just a use of a Latin word. Now do I go up to New Ager's and others and call them Satanists? no. That would be untactful and considered unfriendly, and I would be rebluffed. But I still believe that they are. Well then, we have nothing to discuss if you are going to throw around words like "satanist" in that way. And then people wonder why I said I wouldn't ask any Pagans from my friend's board here? Well folks, THIS is a perfect example of why.  |
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Post by Charis on Aug 21, 2003 12:55:15 GMT -5
Newbirth: Because I've been New Age and Wiccan and know what they are TRULY about. *** Quick read before the anti 1st amendment moderators edit what I post because they deem it offensive - whaaaaa whaaaaaa ! ****** ARKCOV: Is thaaaaat riggggghhhhhttttt. Edited by IamLight Tell me, did you acquire your religous studies MINOR degree from a mail order or on-line college as it has failed to serve you at this point. While we're on the subject of accolades and merit - I have a BA in Biblical and Middle Eastern Archaeology with a minor in Communications and have studied Old testament and New Testament scripture and prophecy for 15 years so what is your point in stating that you have a MINOR in religous studies ? Whooo hooo good for you but your still in the DARK ! Have a nice day. *yawn* Ad hominum. Please try again. |
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Post by heathen76 on Aug 21, 2003 13:06:03 GMT -5
Heathen76: It is your right to be incorrect. ARKCOV: Likewise, it is ok for you to remain ignorant. No one will try and stop you. Wow, ARKCOV. I keep forgetting that you consider yourself the grand authority on "enlightenment". Maybe in hindsight I should have gotten a degree in Biblical and Middle Eastern Archaeology, but I suppose I wanted to do something other than wait tables for a living. I am not sure why you keep throwing your "credentials" around when I get the impression that you think the only book worth reading for information is the Bible. Perhaps that is an incorrect assessment, and that is fine. However, I don't think it's fair of you to call into question Newbirth's value as a commentator when (as far as I can tell) she has more "credentials" than you in this matter. She has been what she is advising against. Plus, she is counselling without anger as you seem unwilling or unable to do. |
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Post by ARKCOV on Aug 21, 2003 13:55:43 GMT -5
Heathen76: Wow, ARKCOV. I keep forgetting that you consider yourself the grand authority on "enlightenment".
ARKCOV: Never said anything close.
Heathen76: but I suppose I wanted to do something other than wait tables for a living
ARKCOV: I am an IT Analyst at GlaxoSmithKline. What ever gave you the idea that I have or am waiting tables ? Maybe you just ASSumed this. Tsk ! Tsk ! talking about counseling without anger.
Heathen: I am not sure why you keep throwing your "credentials" around when I get the impression that you think the only book worth reading for information is the Bible.
ARKCOV: Ok - without sounding condescending (look it up) I would like to point out that my previous reply to New Birth was in response to her throwing HER CREDENTIALS AROUND. Duh ! And as for your impression - well you were partially right in your above mentioned statement. Yes - the only book that is worth reading for God's insight, will, purpose and instruction for living is the Bible. The Bible is not just information that is to be taken or discarded but it is God's written word (not my word) but God's word. Not my belief but God's word. Not "a" belief but God's word. Not some man made diety but God's word. Not some man made concept but God's word. Not some concocted theory or speculative conjecture but God's word. You see Heathen the probelm lies within. You deny God and Christ of the Bible and choose to follow something that fits or relates to your thought and concept of God - I on the other hand do not. You question everything and understand nothing. Your concepts and beliefs about God are just that - YOUR CONCEPTS AND BELIEFS. Mine are not. Were you divinely inspired to believe what you believe ? I think not for if you were then you would not deny the God of Abraham and the God of the Universe - the Creator of the Heavens and the Earth - the All that is - Alpha and Omega - The great I AM - YHWH.
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Thank you for the concern and the suggestions. Have a great day! ;D
